The link between Greek membership and social conservatism

[Dionysus]

Going by what I read on GC and other Greek message boards, Greeks as a whole tend to be more socially conservative compared to non-Greeks. Most of the Greeks I know/knew in real life are more on the conservative side also. I took a class last semester, we read a lot of research on different student groups. There was research that said Greeks are one of the least socially progressive student groups.

In other words, it's obvious that Greeks as a group are more socially conservative than non-Greeks. What I have trouble understanding is what is it about fraternities and sororities that attract more conservative people. Maybe I have trouble understanding because I was a social Greek for a short period of time, and missed out on a lot of stuff. It seems that the things fraternities and sororities provide (brother/sisterhood, leadership development, networking opportunities, etc.) would attract anyone, regardless of political and social views.

[Animate]

Huh?

[Benzgirl]

I think it's like saying the dress code for sorority recruitment is to wear pearls and white gloves. No, the Greek system does not attract people with more conservative views.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

I think it's like saying the dress code for sorority recruitment is to wear pearls and white gloves. No, the Greek system does not attract people with more conservative views.

Yeah. You should probably come to the South.

[AGDee]

In general, they do. This is why greek membership suffered so in the early 70's. The greek system was seen as part of "The Establishment" and the vast majority of college students wanted nothing to do with "The Establishment". There are certain standards we are expected to uphold as members of our organizations and they tend to be pretty conservative. The true irony in this phenomena, for the women's groups anyway, is that our organizations were founded by women who were attending college during times that it was not encouraged. So, they were very progressive women who set out to develop our organizations.

That definitely doesn't mean there are no liberals in GLOs and it definitely varies by region, but extreme liberals (think anarchy types) aren't going to be interested in joining a group where they are told what they can wear when they drink, etc.

[Little32]

Conservative does not necessarily equal negative. Also, I think that most folks assoiciate greek life with a degree of conformity (whether that is true or not), and the notion that one has to conform to be a member overrides the other positives that might be associated with greek life.

Also, conservative is relative. In the black community, NPHC organizations are often considered conservative because of some of the values they espouse. However, when considered in relation to other GLOs, NPHC organizations might be considered down-right radical.

As my grandfather used to say "It's all relative."

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by AGDee

In general, they do. This is why greek membership suffered so in the early 70's. The greek system was seen as part of "The Establishment" and the vast majority of college students wanted nothing to do with "The Establishment". There are certain standards we are expected to uphold as members of our organizations and they tend to be pretty conservative. The true irony in this phenomena, for the women's groups anyway, is that our organizations were founded by women who were attending college during times that it was not encouraged. So, they were very progressive women who set out to develop our organizations.

My college banned general GLOs for that very reason during that time period. Not so coincidentally, a lot of extra liberal feminist student affairs people joined the staff at that time. Luckily, the last of them just retired so hopefully with new leadership we can revisit the GLO issue -- especially since both AEPi and another NIC org have official (for the org) unrecognized (by the school) chapters there.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

I think it's like saying the dress code for sorority recruitment is to wear pearls and white gloves. No, the Greek system does not attract people with more conservative views.

Uh...yes it does, in general. What a horrible analogy.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

Going by what I read on GC and other Greek message boards, Greeks as a whole tend to be more socially conservative compared to non-Greeks. Most of the Greeks I know/knew in real life are more on the conservative side also. I took a class last semester, we read a lot of research on different student groups. There was research that said Greeks are one of the least socially progressive student groups.

In other words, it's obvious that Greeks as a group are more socially conservative than non-Greeks. What I have trouble understanding is what is it about fraternities and sororities that attract more conservative people. Maybe I have trouble understanding because I was a social Greek for a short period of time, and missed out on a lot of stuff. It seems that the things fraternities and sororities provide (brother/sisterhood, leadership development, networking opportunities, etc.) would attract anyone, regardless of political and social views.

the demographics for my sorority dispute this. But then it is probably understandable since out first official act was to participate in the suffragette movement and march the streets of DC.

[UGAalum94]

I think private social clubs are going to be more resistant to social change because of the self-selected nature of members. The present group of members looks for a new set most like them, which tends to perpetuate holding the same ideas and values over time.

There's also a principle that suggest that being in groups with people who are politically the same makes the positions of the group members more extreme than being in groups that are mixed by ideology. (It makes sense. Your constantly reinforcing rather than challenging each other, if nothing else.)

So if the same idea is true in purely social groups, the prevailing ideology of the group may perpetuate itself. Since the groups have set traditions and history, it attracts traditionalist and the cycle continues.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

the demographics for my sorority dispute this. But then it is probably understandable since out first official act was to participate in the suffragette movement and march the streets of DC.

So you wouldn't say that Delta has some values that might be considered conservative in this day and age?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Little32

So you wouldn't say that Delta has some values that might be considered conservative in this day and age?

Hmmm, not really. Our values are around service, sisterhood, scholarship and social action. But as you said it is all relative, like considered conservative by whom?

[Little32]

Right and I think for some just the notion of a sorority, with all that is implicit in that, seems conservative. Also, I am sure that Delta as an organization has certain expectations surrounding behaviors and activities where members are concerned that many do feel are conservative. It is a difficult conversation to have because the idea of conservatism is so broad--and I am willing to bet that we were not much of a consideration in much of the research anyway.

[LPIDelta]

We should also consider that in addition to upbringing, beliefs can be cultural or generational. I find as a generation that the current crop is more accepting of some things than mine was.... and I am sure older generations say the same of my generation.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Scandia

My family is very conservative overall- and not fond of GLOs at all. I am a fence-sitting moderate, and I am an A Phi O brother and am pursuing AI as well.

I do not notice this in APO.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Well most fraternities strive to live up to values and a set of beliefs that were established 100+ years ago, a time when American culture was conservative, so this is not at all very surprising. Also, if you look at the things that most Greeks do, (serenades, pinnings, date parties,etc) it is kind of a throw back to an older generation.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I think private social clubs are going to be more resistant to social change because of the self-selected nature of members. The present group of members looks for a new set most like them, which tends to perpetuate holding the same ideas and values over time.

There's also a principle that suggest that being in groups with people who are politically the same makes the positions of the group members more extreme than being in groups that are mixed by ideology. (It makes sense. Your constantly reinforcing rather than challenging each other, if nothing else.)

So if the same idea is true in purely social groups, the prevailing ideology of the group may perpetuate itself. Since the groups have set traditions and history, it attracts traditionalist and the cycle continues.

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

I would say that on a whole the NPC/IFC organizations still tend to be conservative. Certainly I've observed this in the south, but even in the midwest it's there. Why is that? Probably because GLOs were a place where people could be excluded. At first, you didn't have to let in the Catholics or the Jews. Then they slowly became okay, but you still didn't have to let in the African-Americans or Latino/as. Greek organizations have always been a little behind the civil rights movements (with the possible exception of women's suffrage) and more conservative people probably flocked to them as a place where their values were being "upheld" as the norm still.

Ok, this makes sense.

Originally Posted by summer_gphib

I think there is truth to that, but I also think that sororities and fraternities are steeped in tradition. That tradition has appeal to those who are more unwilling to embrace new ideas. Tradition is one of the things I love the most about my sorority. It's an unchanging bond in a world of constant change.

Although I am a liberal. And I am still wearing my birkenstocks. *grin*

I'm not sure what you mean by "tradition" in this context.

Originally Posted by AlethiaSi

My sorority, being local in NY, we had a variety of girls that were attracted to membership (in any greek org on campus) but primarily within our org, it was the girls, our laid back style, house, social and service functions and cheaper dues (... like 600 dollars cheaper) amongst many other reasons. Is it possible that the cheaper dues attracted liberal members? lol, i couldn't even begin to make assumptions about that, but I know it was a bonus for me.

Overall, we were primarily liberal, we had a few conservative members, but there is actually a rule in our consititution that forbade anyone from discussing politics or religion in the house (obvi we didn't always follow this, but the rule made sense and we tried to as best we could)

I think that everything that everyone has brought up are good ideas about why this is (more or less) true. I think that the throw back to older ideals and standards of behavior is responsible (amongst other things, but I'm making a generalization)
However, I'm not from the south, or the midwest (though my family is) and am very liberal (raised that way) so I can't speak of the traditions elsewhere.

p.s. very interesting topic Dionysus

Thanks.

The "no discussion of politics/religion" rule is a good idea...if people cannot be civil.

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Hmmm, not really. Our values are around service, sisterhood, scholarship and social action. But as you said it is all relative, like considered conservative by whom?

Ok. While a lot of NPHC Greeks are democrats, I still think a lot of you guys are on the socially conservative side also. Why do you think that is so?