NPHC Secretiveness, Insularity, Etc.

[Little32]

I am hesitant to continue posting in this thread because I am not about defending the practices of my organization, which I am still learning about.

As a new member, I have been encouraged to join committees and assume leadership roles within my chapter. However, I also understand that I have a good deal to learn about the workings of my organization and sometimes the best way to do that is to observe.

fantASTic, the "neo" comments that you have observed are probably more in jest than anything else, and I would hope that you would not continue to believe that NPC orgs value their NMs more that BGLOs (the culture of our organizations just demonstrates that value differently). For all of us, new members are the life blood of our organizations, without them none of our organizations would last very long.

To Wolfman: While I agree with some of your post, I wonder how much would you suggest that NPHC organization alter about its culture and practices in order to "play on the bigger field," so to speak. PM me, if you want to continue the conversation privately.

[Senusret I]

fantASTic..... I strongly suggest talking to someone more knowledgeable in real life, like a Greek affairs administrator. I think that what you see on GC and what you experience in real life are valid, but I think it takes something a little "extra" to understand certain nuances about how and why we do things the way we do them. I suggest an administrator because they have the experience and the patience to explain things a little better than we probably will.

I do believe that some of your comments paint NPHC orgs with a wide brush -- we, for example, don't have "New Members." We have aspirants, who then become whatever they are called during that organization's Membership Intake Process, then we have members.

Trust me, for all of the time, energy, effort, money, etc., spent on the membership intake process, we DEFINITELY value those people that are going through. You don't SEE that because it's private.

[Little32]

^^And when I was responding to her post, I was thinking more of a neo/new member correlation, which is not correct.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Little32

I am hesitant to continue posting in this thread because I am not about defending the practices of my organization, which I am still learning about.

As a new member, I have been encouraged to join committees and assume leadership roles within my chapter. However, I also understand that I have a good deal to learn about the workings of my organization and sometimes the best way to do that is to observe.

fantASTic, the "neo" comments that you have observed are probably more in jest than anything else, and I would hope that you would not continue to believe that NPC orgs value their NMs more that BGLOs (the culture of our organizations just demonstrates that value differently). For all of us, new members are the life blood of our organizations, without them none of our organizations would last very long.

To Wolfman: While I agree with some of your post, I wonder how much would you suggest that NPHC organization alter about its culture and practices in order to "play on the bigger field," so to speak. PM me, if you want to continue the conversation privately.

Per my feelings and convictions about this matter, I will post here what I have to say to combat what I've just written about. If it's not about ritualistic matters (and not just traditions which are just practices that have grown up and are respected) and matters which have to do with proprietary information and intraorganizational gossip, it's should be talked about in public forums.

To my point. There has to be real dialogue and engagement on these issues between all parties for each group to hammer out what the parameters are. It just doesn't go one way! But I do know this:this culture of secrecy, esp. as it relates to hazing has to be changed. First, we have to get into the heads and hearts of members that we have to give up this sense of entitlement about Greek life. All Greek chapters are INVITED GUESTS on every campus. We live in an extremely litigious society and every institution is about protecting their ass(ets). GLOs represent a major matter of exposure to colleges and universities. We have to understand this and realize we exist on their campuses at their behest. We don't have inalienable rights in this matter! I'm very much in favor of maintaining the richness of BGLO traditions but they have to be devoid of the physical hazing aspect. Without question, the traditionally white GLOs have done a better job in addressing alcohol abuse issues in a programmatic and real way than we have of hazing, even though there is undergraduate rebellion in their midst and non-compliance, too.

Case in point. Amongst NPHC groups, more open dialogue and transparency amongst the rank and file would have been better in crafting a better solution to the wholesale abolition of pledging in 1990. This decision had the result of making pledging a sub rosa activity and the culture of hazing more more distorted in some ways. This is the reason why my fraternity is exploring bringing pledging back. But this issue does not exist in a cultureal vacuum. We are not simply accountable to our groups and the sometime secretive cultures that exist in them at different levels (just like in police depts., the military,etc. where exposing misconduct or certain apects of its inner workings of the institution can be viewed as a betrayal of the group); we are accountable to our host educational institutions and, increasingly, the legal and penal system. This will increasingly become the case if we act as we do now.

A few random thoughts on the fly!

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Case in point. Amongst NPHC groups, more open dialogue and transparency amongst the rank and file would have been better in crafting a better solution to the wholesale abolition of pledging in 1990. This decision had the result of making pledging a sub rosa activity and teh culture of hazing more more distorted in some ways. This is the reason why my fraternity is exploring bringing pledging back. But this issue does not exist in a cultureal vacuum. We are not simply accountable to our groups and the sometime secretive cultures that exist in them at different levels (just like in police depts., the military,etc. where exposure of misconduct or certain apects of its inner workings of the institution can be viewed as a betrayal of the group); we are accountable to the our hosts educational institutions and, increasingly, the legal and penal system. This will increasingly become the case if we act as we do now.

A few random thoughts on the fly!

Just to be clear, Delta changed her intake process before the rest of the NPHC. We had a period where chapters piloted the new program, evaluated it and that in turn led to some tweaking. Then it was voted on at a national convention. You also need to understand that this whole process change started because host institutions were threatening to eliminate all NPHC orgs on their yards, because of the hazing that was occuring.

And notice I said hazing and not pledging, because in my mind they will always be two different things.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Just to be clear, Delta changed her intake process before the rest of the NPHC. We had a period where chapters piloted the new program, evaluated it and that in turn led to some tweaking. Then it was voted on at a national convention. You also need to understand that this whole process change started because host institutions were threatening to eliminate all NPHC orgs on their yards, because of the hazing that was occuring.

And notice I said hazing and not pledging, because in my mind they will always be two different things.

Yeah, a similar thing happened in Omega. To address this issue,they kept whittling down the length of the pledge period and tweaking the program until 1990 when the big change were adopted in the NPHC. The problem is not as acute in the sororities as the fraternities but across the board, we face the same issues, organizationally speaking. And, unfortunately, we get tarred with the same brush when things go awry in some big, high profile cases.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Yeah, a similar thing happened in Omega. To address this issue,they kept whittling down the length of the pledge period and tweaking the program until 1990 when the big change were adopted in the NPHC. The problem is not as acute in the sororities as the fraternities but across the board, we face the same issues, organizationally speaking. And, unfortunately, we get tarred with the same brush when things go awry in some big, high profile cases.

We actually started piloting in the 80s and tried two different processes. We went with the most effective of the two. As you probably remember the HBCUs were really on our cases.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Per my feelings and convictions about this matter, I will post here what I have to say to combat what I've just written about. If it's not about ritualistic matters (and not just traditions which are just practices that have grown up and are respected) and matters which have to do with proprietary information and intraorganizational gossip, it's should be talked about in public forums.

To my point. There has to be real dialogue and engagement on these issues between all parties for each group to hammer out what the parameters are. It just doesn't go one way! But I do know this:this culture of secrecy, esp. as it relates to hazing has to be changed. First, we have to get into the heads and hearts of members that we have to give up this sense of entitlement about Greek life. All Greek chapters are INVITED GUESTS on every campus. We live in an extremely litigious society and every institution is about protecting their ass(ets). GLOs represent a major matter of exposure to colleges and universities. We have to understand this and realize we exist on their campuses at their behest. We don't have inalienable rights in this matter! I'm cery muc in favor of maintaining the richness of BGLO traditions but they have to be devoid of the physical hazing aspect. Without question, the traditionally white GLOs have done a better job in addressing alcohol abuse issues in a programmatic and real way than we have of hazing, even though there is undergraduate rebellion in their midst and non-compliance too.

Case in point. Amongst NPHC groups, more open dialogue and transparency amongst the rank and file would have been better in crafting a better solution to the wholesale abolition of pledging in 1990. This decision had the result of making pledging a sub rosa activity and teh culture of hazing more more distorted in some ways. This is the reason why my fraternity is exploring bringing pledging back. But this issue does not exist in a cultureal vacuum. We are not simply accountable to our groups and the sometime secretive cultures that exist in them at different levels (just like in police depts., the military,etc. where exposure of misconduct or certain apects of its inner workings of the institution can be viewed as a betrayal of the group); we are accountable to the our hosts educational institutions and, increasingly, the legal and penal system. This will increasingly become the case if we act as we do now.

A few random thoughts on the fly!

Thanks. This clarifies, for me, parts of your earlier post.

[AKA_Monet]

To the OP: As a moderator for the AKA Ave Forum, I am dictated by our International HQ to NEVER DISCUSS MEMBERSHIP INTAKE with prospectives beyond "Hello and go to AKA1908.com"

I can NOT have my dues increase because random people tell prospectives crazy things. The GC AKA Ave. has over 2-3 posts per week regarding membership that are deleted. We even have a clear statement that we will NOT discuss membership. We will not discuss it and it will NEVER happen. We are holding our membership to ONE ACCORD for legitmacy as known by the Corporate Office to our member assumed to be lifelong members...


Wolfman: While I believe you all are quite eager to change the climate of your membership, have you all sustained the monetary blows to be of service to your communities?

The issue is the transition state between Undergraduate to Graduate Chapter does not translate. We lose members who wear the badge but fail do the work they commited themselves to do as "youth". We might have reactivation very late in one's life but the Sorority had dramatically changed from their initiation. We, as African Americans, cannot afford the loss...

What one sees on a college campus is NOT what is observed in the community by the Alumni. While we serve our respective communities, the undergraduate students do not have funds to maintain superior PR as the graduate chapters. It costs money to place ads in newspapers these days. Most universities student governments fail to include even IFC/NPC greeks, much less NPHC or MCGLO's. And universities NEVER give their rooms out to hold events as required by my International HQ. And we are a city-wide chapter.

There other issues, such as youth failing to understand the commitment. Yes, an re-introduction of an above ground pledge period that can misconstrued as hazing would be nice. But I know for a fact that Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. buried those thoughts in more ways than one...

[ChildoftheHorn]

Hmm..

I know of a few people(NPHC, NPC) thought having an "All-Greek" event where it would be a big cookout on the lake with people from every GLO on campus (IFC, NPC, NPHC, MGC). There would also be a tag football game with 1-2 people from each org.

It was kinda late in the year when we thought of it, but we hope to start it next year.

The big reason is that there is a huge division between the councils and there is no sense of unity within the Greek System.

I understand the D9 *hush*, but the point is also that many people are confused and mislead by lack of knowledge.
They hear about the hazing and assume that it is going on badly in every org on campus! no joke.....although I laughed when someone I knew said it.

Quite frankly, how would anyone know differently without taking out a portion of their day to do so (99% of people wouldn't)? There are none of the information meetings or discussion at all about the organizations (to the best of my knowledge).

Why not have an open hall during New Student Week where evey org has a few people and a sign/banner/board where they talk about their philanthropy/values/history for a couple of hours?

Both of these events would be good for the new students, current actives, and the system itself (everyone could use good exposure).

Sometimes, it is good to talk about (certain) things.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by ChildoftheHorn

Hmm..

I know of a few people(NPHC, NPC) thought having an "All-Greek" event where it would be a big cookout on the lake with people from every GLO on campus (IFC, NPC, NPHC, MGC). There would also be a tag football game with 1-2 people from each org.

It was kinda late in the year when we thought of it, but we hope to start it next year.

The big reason is that there is a huge division between the councils and there is no sense of unity within the Greek System.

I understand the D9 *hush*, but the point is also that many people are confused and mislead by lack of knowledge.
They hear about the hazing and assume that it is going on badly in every org on campus! no joke.....although I laughed when someone I knew said it.

Quite frankly, how would anyone know differently without taking out a portion of their day to do so (99% of people wouldn't)? There are none of the information meetings or discussion at all about the organizations (to the best of my knowledge).

Why not have an open hall during New Student Week where evey org has a few people and a sign/banner/board where they talk about their philanthropy/values/history for a couple of hours?

Both of these events would be good for the new students, current actives, and the system itself (everyone could use good exposure).

Sometimes, it is good to talk about (certain) things.

Several campi do have "Meet the Greeks". Some include all the councils, many don't... Also, the fact the many campi admins are "antigreek" overall, suggests that intervention by elders may be required. However, young people fail to ask us or ask us at the last minute--especially when matters are worse...

My undergraduate chapter that my graduate chapter oversees, has interacted with 2-3 different non-NPHC GLO's.

[Senusret I]

Child, some campuses do those things. On those campuses where the lack of information seems to be detrimental to the system, then talk to your greek affairs people -- seriously!

[ChildoftheHorn]

Yeah, on my campus there is a small thing that is done by a few of the councils individually - but not a collective....not a place where a student could explore all of their options.

There is not unity. There are quite a few people pushing for it, but IMO people have retained many of the prejudices against the Orgs. (this is a two way street).

As stupid as it seems....
-We follow the same guidelines
-Have similar structure (positions, philanthropy, tradition)
-Go to the same School (Go to class together)
-Have friends in each others' org.
-Belong to the same non-Greek groups

Why does it seem like such a strech for a lil' Greek unity too? - What council may be right for your friend, may not right for you.

[nwu43]

[quote=ChildoftheHorn;1495595]

There is not unity. There are quite a few people pushing for it, but IMO people have retained many of the prejudices against the Orgs. (this is a two way street).

Hmmm... do you remember that "famous" NU daily article written awhile back?

Mocking Diversity's Promise
(and everyone else should take a look at this too.. it's.. interesting)

"The lead article in The Daily's final issue of fall 2006 focused on declining black enrollment since the 1970s. Apparently NU is in some sort of crisis - there aren't enough blacks here. For now, this isn't our crisis. Our crisis is that blacks and other minorities do not spend enough time in any context with other races (and vice versa). Increasing the enrollment ratio of any race will not increase the interaction between different races and backgrounds. If NU were to eliminate social groups that construct themselves on race or a "cultural history," it would be the first step to resolving this crisis."

This article was written by a member of an IFC fraternity, basically calling for NPHC and MGC greeks to disappear, and from what I remember he wasn't the only one that held this opinion. Besides one guy from his fraternity that joined "our" cause in protest, most of the guys in his house totally agreed with him.

The NPHC and MGC greeks held a unity rally to protest, and apparently the guys in that house called our rally "bullshit" (this is a direct quote from the fraternity member who sided with us and overheard it). Other IFC greeks seemed to hold similar feelings about us. Of course, that is just from what I hear... but still, I'm pretty sure there's some truth to that. At end of our rally we held an event at Norris where everyone could discuss the issue and make speeches etc..., and some ignorant **** dressed in a bunny costume ran by trying to distract us and mock us.

It's kind of hard for us to want to work toward unity with mainstream Greeks when it seems like they really don't like us

[nwu43]

Btw, I know that he was writing for unity and more interaction between different races, but his definition of unity is much much different.. (kinda like the perfect Greek world would be all races in IFC frats). Although in a strange way I feel like not 100% of his article is completely bs, and I feel terrible about it...