"The Dreaded Phone Call"

[UGAalum94]

Thanks for being so kind.

When I was explaining that my feelings on the topic didn't matter, it was in acknowledgment of my having been annoying with my incessant questioning in another thread. I would expect my opinions to matter to my own group some, but when I question other people's policies, I just want to be clear that I understand my lack of status and that it's purely theoretical. I am sincerely interested and honestly thinking about what policy would be ideal, but I don't want anyone to think I believe I know more about what policies their group's should have than they do or that I expect my feelings to matter to them.

So much of the authenticity of MS standards really does depend on the chapter, especially the undergraduate leadership, too. (Are you choosing this PNM because she really is a great girl or because her brother or boyfriend is in a fraternity that you want to have more socials with? Both things help the group, but to me, one seems more legitimate than the other. If you are chapter that does consider her connections on campus, consider her connections at home as well, is all I'd say.)

I do appreciate your kind words about alums sincerely.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

So much of the authenticity of MS standards really does depend on the chapter, especially the undergraduate leadership, too. (Are you choosing this PNM because she really is a great girl or because her brother or boyfriend is in a fraternity that you want to have more socials with? Both things help the group, but to me, one seems more legitimate than the other. If you are chapter that does consider her connections on campus, consider her connections at home as well, is all I'd say.)

This was similar to my earlier point. We all want girls who will be involved in the chapter and on campus, who will get good grades, who won't do anything embarrassing, and who will treat other sisters with respect and kindness.

When undergraduate women on either side of a large competitive rush talk about a poor "fit", IMO, they are generally referring to either appearance or sociability. This is true of both the chapter's view of a rushee and a rushee's view of the chapter. Unfortunately, a lot of decisions are made on the basis of "fit", which is really a meaningless concept. Some of you will say there may be a sporty house, or a studious house, or whatever, but I honestly do not think that is the case in chapters with over 100 women; they have women of all types.

So my point is not that you should choose a legacy over someone who honestly better meets the objective criteria for membership. It is that you should consider legacy status to be more important than some of the subjective stuff which really doesn't tell you much about how good a member the woman will turn out to be.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

So my point is not that you should choose a legacy over someone who honestly better meets the objective criteria for membership. It is that you should consider legacy status to be more important than some of the subjective stuff which really doesn't tell you much about how good a member the woman will turn out to be.

I don't think legacy status tells you how good a member a woman will turn out to be either...see honeychile's story. And even if the legacy is someone who wants to pledge, there's no guarantee she won't turn out to be a giant waste of space. I realize there are a lot more "just members" in large chapters - women who never hold office or do anything more than the minimum - but if you keep pledging legacies just because they're legacies, and don't take into account things you take into account w/ other rushees (like personality or grades or involvement) eventually you might end up with a whole chapter full of 100 "just members" and no one with leadership qualities.

Please don't think I'm saying all legacies are like this - far from it - but the thing is, I think I would hate to be chosen for something just because of who my mother or sister was, if someone didn't really want me or I didn't measure up.

[UGAalum94]

33Girl,

I may be wrong, but when I read DeltaBetaBaby's post, I think she's completely agree with you. It's the stuff that"fit" sometimes used to describe that, rather than anything more objective, she thinks you might need to look hard at in the case of legacies.

As near as I can tell, there's nobody who thinks that legacies should get bids just because they are legacies. (unless their my hypothetical legacies, in which case that should be more than enough.) If there's reason to believe that another girl has stronger leadership traits, that's a totally valid thing to consider. Someone else begin cuter if the legacy is cute herself, not so much, IMO.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

33Girl,

I may be wrong, but when I read DeltaBetaBaby's post, I think she's completely agree with you. It's the stuff that"fit" sometimes used to describe that, rather than anything more objective, she thinks you might need to look hard at in the case of legacies.

As near as I can tell, there's nobody who thinks that legacies should get bids just because they are legacies. (unless their my hypothetical legacies, in which case that should be more than enough.) If there's reason to believe that another girl has stronger leadership traits, that's a totally valid thing to consider. Someone else begin cuter if the legacy is cute herself, not so much, IMO.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. If two girls were both involved in high school, get good grades, and want to live in the house/be officers, you should put the one who is a legacy over the one who happens to be a little more outgoing during rush.

[Zillini]

As jwright25 said, every year ADPi publishes that alums won't be getting a phone call. We used to but the policy was changed several years back. From what I've been told and it may or may not be accurate, the primary reason for the change was that on so many campuses the number of legacies going through Recruitment was huge. There just isn't time.

For example, as I recall last year at one SEC school there was 1 1/2 times quota of legacies going through. My memory is hazy but quota was somewhere around 80, so that would mean about 120 legacies. Invite lists are typically due at about 5am. Even if MS sessions end by say 2am, the Recruitment Team still needs to generate the actual list to submit to Panhellenic and that takes time. The invites are then distributed to the pnm's at around 8am. It's impossible to make all those calls for the simple reason that the actives and advisors are busy with the next round of Recruitment. Or maybe trying to get some sleep. Once Recruitment is finished we send out letters telling an alum where their legacy ended up.

As a parent I can understand the anger and frustration of not receiving a phone call, but as an advisor I appreciate not having to make those calls. They rarely go well. Each year I still field numerous calls from angry alums. They demand to know why and I can't tell them. I've heard threats to turn in their pin and/or quit contributing money. Some even call HQ or the University to file complaints.

We don't release legacies frivolously, but we do release them. Sometimes we have to because of the sheer numbers of legacies going through. I feel horrible for all the mothers, sisters, grandmothers out there when that happens. But please ladies know that being a legacy no longer means a guaranteed bid. Those times are long gone.

Allow me a moment to vent with one last comment to alums, please find out what the minimum GPA is for the Chapter in question is before calling up to complain. If it's 3.0 or higher and your legacy has a 2.5, please don't call. You and more importantly she should have been thinking about this back in HS. Being a legacy doesn't compensate for poor grades.