"The Dreaded Phone Call"

[UGAalum94]

Can we do a GLO roll call of which groups require legacy release calls and which don't? (I think most legacy policies are available publicly, which leads me to believe they won't be considered MS in themselves.) I'm just curious because I thought it was nearly universal, but I'm way wrong.

My understanding is that Alpha Gamma Delta does.

Base on this thread, Gamma Phi Beta does not.
Phi Mu does not
Kappa does not

[Ocalagirl]

I know Alpha Xi Delta does and this is from their national website.

If the chapter has received a reference on a legacy, and that legacy is released, the mother, grandmother or sister is called and told of the decision.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Two thoughts:

1) I think that notification or not, HC is right in that organizations should do everything possible to take a legacy. If you have a leg who is alright, meets basic membership standards and what not, I think you can find one more cut to make to keep her around. I'm sorry if you have to cut someone who is a better fit with the chapter, but keep in mind that a legacy is going to be easy to retain and may possibly encourage donations of time/money from her connected relative.

(I know this is totally impossible on campuses where there are tons of legs. I am talking about fewer than a dozen legs coming through on a campus with quota of 50, i.e. many places in the midwest)

2) If you notify the leg's relative, you are sparing her from having to do it. I know that was tough when I went through rush (I "regretted with interest", and they did not invite me back). Also, if the truth is that you have more legs than quota, you can very simply state that to the relative. Any reasonable person would get that you can not fit two pounds into a one-pound bag.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Two thoughts:

1) I think that notification or not, HC is right in that organizations should do everything possible to take a legacy. If you have a leg who is alright, meets basic membership standards and what not, I think you can find one more cut to make to keep her around. I'm sorry if you have to cut someone who is a better fit with the chapter, but keep in mind that a legacy is going to be easy to retain and may possibly encourage donations of time/money from her connected relative.

(I know this is totally impossible on campuses where there are tons of legs. I am talking about fewer than a dozen legs coming through on a campus with quota of 50, i.e. many places in the midwest)

2) If you notify the leg's relative, you are sparing her from having to do it. I know that was tough when I went through rush (I "regretted with interest", and they did not invite me back). Also, if the truth is that you have more legs than quota, you can very simply state that to the relative. Any reasonable person would get that you can't fit two pounds into a one-pound bag.

Snaps for writing this clearly.

AFAIK, Alpha Delta Pi requires a call - but this may be a chapter to chapter rule.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by honeychile

AFAIK, Alpha Delta Pi requires a call - but this may be a chapter to chapter rule.

I would think it is chapter to chapter. Or province to province / district to district. As Chapter Advisor I was never told to do it, and as CPD, I was told directly by my DTD NOT to do it....

On the whole subject of the thread, I guess my experiences have just been so different from everyone else's. I will give my disclaimer now that all of this is MY opinion and is NOT reflective of any policy of my sorority. As it currently stands, I wholeheartedly respect and agree with our legacy policies. I base all of my conclusions and opinions on these real-life experiences:

1. One of my chapters was raked over the coals on a different messageboard a couple of years ago. They had released an alumna's sister, and she was upset about it. She ranted about lack of respect for alumnae - just because her sister didn't get in. She thought her sister was fantabulous, but in real life was annoying the fire out of everyone by going around announcing that she was guaranteed a bid because of her legacy status. And that was the least of her indiscretions. This attitude (expressed by the alumna) does not heighten my desire to call alumnae or extend respect to them beyond the current requirements of our legacy policy.

2. Last fall, a chapter had 5 legacies going through recruitment with a new member class of 29. They released one and pledged the other 4. Of those 4, two had their membership cancelled the next semester. There were many wonderful PNMs who were not extended a bid to this chapter because they kept legacies that might not have been kept without that status.

3. It is a very common feeling amongst legacies that "they only like me because of my mom or sister. Do they really like me for me?" And when we make such a big deal about it, and even consider releasing or lowering the bid list "rank" of another PNM who IS liked better or who DOES have more assets, we are confirming their suspicions. I prefer that all new members be given equal treatment and consideration based on THEIR qualities, not those of their family. I would certainly hope that others base their opinions of me on me - not on my family.

4. I have had alumnae threaten chapters, threaten Universities, threaten Panhellenic, threaten ME, call Executive Office, call International Officers, and so much more - because their legacy was released. For every considerate or non-complaining alumna, I've dealt with 5 rude ones. Again, not heightening my desire to respect alumnae just because 20 years ago they were active.

5. When I do think respect for the alumna should be considered is when the sister has remained involved with the organization and given of her time and talents - to a chapter, to an alumnae association, to the sorority as a whole, or whatever. Even then, if the PNM isn't going to fit, she isn't going to fit. I know we hate using that cop-out, but I don't know how else to put it. Some people weren't cut out for Greek life. Many times they are pressured by their family members to do it, then they wind up dropping out. But not after having prevented someone with a genuine desire to be involved from being in the chapter.

The only way that I would consider calling an alumna is if she included a note with her legacy introduction forms explaining that should the PNM be released, she would not grill the chapter as to why, but she would prefer to notify her daughter / sister privately so as to avoid embarrassment for her in front of other PNMs.

I realize that my feelings are going to be considered harsh by some, but to me, there are many more reasons NOT to call than there are TO call.

[UGAalum94]

jwright25,

It stinks that they acted that way. Honestly, the organization should make it clear that that junk won't be tolerated. You're performing a service for the organization, and they need to act right.

On a different note, I wonder if you have any kids?

I'm not suggesting that not having kids invalidates someone's opinions about legacies, but I usually see a different attitude in people who face the realistic possibility of it happening to their kids, who as far as they know, seem well qualified.

I don't think that chapters should ever take a risk on a legacy when they have far better candidates. By risk, I mean bad grades, questionable reputation, whatever.

But when the legacies are as "good" as the other PNMs you put on your bid list, by whatever standard you are using, I think it's fine that they get priority.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

It stinks that they acted that way. Honestly, the organization should make it clear that that junk won't be tolerated. You're performing a service for the organization, and they need to act right.

Every summer there is a wonderful article in our magazine that outlines the legacy policy. While I don't recall whether or not it states that there won't be phone calls, I did do some further research and determined that it is a general policy that we are NOT to call. The reasoning behind it is that it is the PNM's decision whether or not to share her experience.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

On a different note, I wonder if you have any kids?

I don't. And I had a feeling that it would come up. Not specifically from you. Just in general. Because I considered that myself. I had to think about how one day I might have a daughter in this situation. While I absolutely cannot predict how I will feel when I do have kids, I do think about it a lot and what kind of parent I would be. I know that without a doubt I would be available to my daughter to talk if she was released, but I just don't think that I am entitled to know about it before she does.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I'm not suggesting that not having kids invalidates someone's opinions about legacies, but I usually see a different attitude in people who face the realistic possibility of it happening to their kids, who as far as they know, seem well qualified.

But if I am not allowed to know why she was released, why would it matter how well qualified she is or isn't? Being told she is released is different from being told why. I think we've all agreed that the alumna on the receiving end of a call should simply say "Thank You" and end the conversation. We'll still love our daughters and think that they are well qualified. Just not a match for that particular chapter of our sorority.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I don't think that chapters should ever take a risk on a legacy when they have far better candidates. By risk, I mean bad grades, questionable reputation, whatever.

But when the legacies are as "good" as the other PNMs you put on your bid list, by whatever standard you are using, I think it's fine that they get priority.

There were no obvious risks with the two legacies that I mentioned above as having been cancelled after one semester. They had good enough grades to make the grade cut, good standards, etc. They weren't very involved in high school, and we knew that there was some outside pressure from the alumnae to get them to go through. There were women with higher GPAs, many more activities, and - frankly - better personalities who did not get a bid. Those women most likely would still be involved.

I don't think we should change our policy because of this, and we are treading away from the "to call or not to call" discussion and more into a general discussion of legacy policy. But that's my fault for bringing it up.