Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

They can't stand being at the selection meetings.

I guess that they'd prefer the unhappy, crying girls to at least be near-strangers?

Seriously, this is one that I don't think you can win, but being a recruitment counselor is probably less likely to make you want to quit your own group.

[susan314]

I'm just curious as to how many people in this thread have ever had to be a part of recruitment with a struggling chapter. (Whether as an active member or an alumnae volunteer/advisor.)

I've had to go through the wringer with 2 chapters, and I tell you - unless you've been there, its hard to understand.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

I remember reading a similar story where an executive said that he considered people who were more conventionally attractive for positions that involved in-person interaction with clients (while he didn't mind hiring people who were less attractive for positions where interaction was over the phone). Sad, and I can't relate because in my career weight and attractiveness aren't really issues, but I guess in some careers that is the way it is. I suppose I can't really comment on how unfair it is because I don't work in a field where it matters.

I think we all know that generally attractive people have an advantage and that it seems that weight would figure in to that too.

But we all know overweight people or less attractive people who we know are very competent or who on a personal level we even, dare I say it, love?

That's what's so craptacular about what was suggested in the first post. Despite actually choosing and knowing this young woman as a sorority sister, the group said simply and apparently without much explanation that she should just stay away. And even recognizing that you have to sometimes hurt people's feelings to have a good recruitment, that's just not acceptable.

[ChildoftheHorn]

I know someone who decided to be a Rho Chi because she wanted to get some sleep those weeks. Last year, her group was up debating until 8-10AM the next day, each day!

In her case, I would say it is favorable.

I also know that some groups have rules about what you can say about PNM's. EX: Only positive things or that you cannot say anything really mean. A few of my relatives groups had this mandated by nationals from what they said, others just had it as a general policy.

I guess somethings got out of the grapevine at some places.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I guess that they'd prefer the unhappy, crying girls to at least be near-strangers?

Seriously, this is one that I don't think you can win, but being a recruitment counselor is probably less likely to make you want to quit your own group.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I'd say do what works for you to get the results you need. Such is the fight of life. Nothing's ever fair or right and in sororityland things can get downright ugly whether it's this or some other situation (homecoming with those guys ?! hell no! We're not having formal at that hotel! If she gets initiated, I'll give back my badge!) We've all been there, done that, seen it, heard it, experienced some drama that in the end we look back and go . I'm not there to know the situation to judge. Use what you got to get what you need.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by susan314

I'm just curious as to how many people in this thread have ever had to be a part of recruitment with a struggling chapter. (Whether as an active member or an alumnae volunteer/advisor.)

I've had to go through the wringer with 2 chapters, and I tell you - unless you've been there, its hard to understand.

And to me, it seems kind of jerky to say, well if you don't end up with quota, you just didn't work hard enough.

For 85% or more of chapters it might be true that saying "quality over quantity is just an excuse for not working hard at recruitment." But for a small percentage of chapters, their problems have been around longer than the present members, and are beyond the scope of what even four years of working harder than everyone else on campus at recruitment can correct.

I think one person mentioned the example of a group with 80 members when the average was around 200. Let's be honest, this group faces this choice probably even after doing everything they can: do we only put PNMs that we'd be proud of on the bid list and know there's no chance we will be close to quota or do we list everyone we can and get more new members but have some new members we're not crazy about? When you're down that far on as SEC campus (or any other highly competitive place), working hard might be the difference between missing quota by 15 instead of 20. But they're going to face the quality vs. quantity issue no matter what. Don't be jerks about how they present what they decided. It's not like they're delusional and haven't seen their return rates, but they are happy about the new members they got this year especially. Let them enjoy it.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by ChildoftheHorn

I know someone who decided to be a Rho Chi because she wanted to get some sleep those weeks. Last year, her group was up debating until 8-10AM the next day, each day!

In her case, I would say it is favorable.

I also know that some groups have rules about what you can say about PNM's. EX: Only positive things or that you cannot say anything really mean. A few of my relatives groups had this mandated by nationals from what they said, others just had it as a general policy.

I guess somethings got out of the grapevine at some places.

Yeah, I think everyone tries to make it as pleasant as they can, but ultimately if the group votes to cut your best friend, it's not going to matter very much what language was used to discuss it.

I do think it's probably 100 times better than it was before computers were used as much as they are now. More stuff can be done, I imagine, with less direct confrontation.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

SECdomination, you make great points here, ones that us SEC women (and women from other competitive schools) will be able to totally grasp... and maybe even some women from non-competitive schools, too, who can realize the big gap between everyone-is-PC-and-nice-to-everyone recruitment and competitive RUSH. I get the idea that a lot of posters live in Fantasy Land where this isn't the way it is and they can't seem to understand that no matter how much we don't like it and don't think it's "nice," it's not going to change (at least no time soon). Women outside of competitive recruitments like to post about how it "should" be, but they haven't experienced it from the inside so it's hard for them to see how unchangeable these attitudes are on these campuses.

I'm sorry that some of us just soooooo out of it and dumb and can't understand...but some of us have a value system that doesn't allow us to degrade people we made promises to. As long as people continue to use your excuses it will not change. It will not change in one year, five years, maybe not even in ten years. It could take twenty, fifty, one hundred years. But it is possible to change it if someone will someday have the guts to stand up for what is right. As far as I'm concerened it's a total in-your-face disgrace to what the organizations stand for to be so shallow.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Yeah, I think everyone tries to make it as pleasant as they can, but ultimately if the group votes to cut your best friend or keep the girl who slept with your boyfriend, it's not going to matter very much what language was used to discuss it.

I do think it's probably 100 times better than it was before computers were used as much as they are now. More stuff can be done, I imagine, with less direct confrontation.

I was pretty disillusioned during the selection process. But on the other hand with the recruitment system we're given to work with...sometimes there is no choice but to make snap decisions, even if they aren't always the right ones. It's hard to stick 60-200 tired, over caffineated, irritable, possibly PMSing girls in a room for hours on end to discuss possible future sisters and NOT have confrontation.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Quality over quantity is just an excuse for poor recruitment. Your chapter can have both if everyone works for it.

This is probably very true for fraternities because they can give out bids differently, and there's no stigma to year round rushing or having two pledge classes a year. You can even have summer rush parties and give bids before guys get to school.

NPC recruitment with quota and chapter total as well as incredibly structured formal rush during which you can't give bids until the end changes the game more than you might think. It's a little harder for the current group of members to make it all up in one recruitment or even a few years of working hard at recruitment if you're a group that girls don't go into recruitment knowing they'd join.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

You got me there. I guess all I can say is that I'm glad I don't have to deal with NPC rush.

I think that most NPCers have, at best, complicated feelings about the way we do things.

At the top chapters, it actually limits how many excellent girls they can take despite those girls wanting them first.

It's kind of bizarre.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Obviously we have a serious difference of opinion here. A small chapter has to do everything they can to stay open. Once things have gotten this bad, priorities change. It's a question of preserving individual freedoms (the fat girls feelings) or protecting society at large (her chapter).
Either way, I agree that it's totally unacceptable to send her completely away from recruitment. It's not like they can't use her.

You got me there. I guess all I can say is that I'm glad I don't have to deal with NPC rush.

I have been a member of a smaller, "struggling" chapter. However, my chapter was overall one of the best looking chapters on campus when this was happening, and the fraternities loved to mix with us. We were small because we attracted some women who were not very committed to sorority life, who dropped out throughout the year. And you know what? The smaller numbers hurt us every year during rush...it was a self-fulfilling prophecy...every year got worse. Even though we had so many beautiful women in our chapter, we got smaller pledge classes because PNMs made snap judgements based on our size. I think size of the chapter has way more to do with it than the size of the women in the chapter.

I'm glad I didn't go to a SEC school after reading all about how "it's all about looks." It's not like that on every campus, even competitive ones, and I'm glad. I think I'd feel stressed out and uncomfortable if I knew my sisters were THAT obsessed with me looking my best all the time. I mean, would I have to sleep in my makeup just in case I had to get up in the middle of the night? I bet I wouldn't have had the wild and super-casual twice-a-year camping trips with my sisters if I was in a SEC chapter.

I was a rush counselor two times - once as a sophomore when I was pre-med and knew I'd be too busy with classes and studying to spend those late nights in membership selection, and later as a senior when I was on Panhellenic exec. - and it was great. I was SO excited to do it my senior year...it was much more enjoyable than dealing with the decorating, the conversation, etc. It is also a lot of fun to see what all of the other chapters do during recruitment, and to hear the reactions of the PNMs throughout the process. I encourage all NPC women to apply if they're considering it...it's a good opportunity to see recruitment from a more objective standpoint.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I am on the Panhellenic Council (Pi Chi) and we have Rho Gammas who are the actual recruitment guides and I LOVE it. I actually fell into it by default, but it's an amazing experience and I'm so glad to not be going through recruitment this year...seeing it from the other side makes me soooo happy that I can see the bigger picture and not focus on certain aspects of the process.

[TPA85]

What in the world ever happened to "It's what's on the inside that matters"?????
I can't believe ANY National would do that. I would turn in my badge with no hesitation. Sisters are supposed to love you for who you are, not what you look like.
That's just disgusting and a disgrace.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

I'm sorry that some of us just soooooo out of it and dumb and can't understand...but some of us have a value system that doesn't allow us to degrade people we made promises to.

Honey, I'm not saying those outside the system are "too dumb" to understand what's going on... nor am I saying that I would actually DO this to a sister or allow it to be done. The chapter I came from wouldn't have done it. I would be glad to believe that there aren't chapters who do it and there aren't reasons it could accomplish something positive numbers-wise in recruitment... but I know for a fact that isn't true.

What I am saying is that, having been through an SEC recruitment as a PNM (and hearing all the talk about chapters, good and bad), I am disillusioned enough to get why a chapter would make this choice. Yes, it's mean to do it. No, I wouldn't personally do it, because sisters are sisters and I believe that part of pledging a girl is knowing that she'll be a recruiting sister for the next three years. But I understand the reasoning behind it.