NPHC Greeks - how do you feel about this?

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by 33girl

You can put all that on a jacket without making it in the style of a "crossing jacket."

What's wrong with having it in that style?

[cuteASAbug]

I personally don't get why girls in the NPC would put their line numbers on jackets. And ASA is not the only sorority there that does that.

[BYXEagle]

I think its not that big of a deal. I think there is already too much division amongst fraternities and sororities based on race. These phrases are not copyrighted. If its a major problem maybe the NPHC should file to have them copyrighted for their private use. I mean we say by becoming initiated you have been welcomed to the brotherhood but thats not copyrighted.

[PrettyBoy]

I went to a black college so only NPHC GLOs existed on our campus. I can't speak for other GLOs but only our founding fathers created our rituals. We weren't jump started by another GLO that already existed.

Personally, hearing this surprised me. I always thought NPC/IFC had done their own thing while we did ours. Now that I know this, yeah it does kind of bother me. This is a personal opinion so I hope I'm not offending any other organizations, but I think NPHC GLOs are unique in our own way. Our traditions imitate no others. I think we are often imitated but never duplicated as far as stepping, and greek clothing, and now from what I'm hearing, other GLOs calling each other sands? and now using the term crossing?

Lets not forget, we were started because we were not excepted into NPC/IFC GLOs, so in turn we started our own. African American students didn't have support groups back then. On the white campuses like IU and Cornell, black students would go weeks without seeing another black student, so with NPHC GLOs starting, they made great support groups for black students, so I don't see us actually copying anyone at all. We've done our own thing for the past 100 years and will continue to do our own thing. Basically, no I don't like to see any sororities or fraternities within the NPHC umbrella group imitated at all.

[Senusret I]

And again, when did the NPHC become a monolith? Alpha has more in common with Malik Fraternity, Inc., than some NPHC orgs.

NPHC traditions DO imitate others. Greek letters, rituals, grips, passwords, and handsigns didn't get created in a vacuum. The organizational structure wasn't unique. And as our organizations matured, we assumed the characteristics of our communities.

Where I'm from, the neighborhoods have calls and chants. Did NPHC orgs do it first? Does it really matter?

Did we have crossing jackets in 1906 or did they evolve over time?

We need perspective here.... sure, I agree with Chaos when she says traditions need to be acknowledged. But everything else is literally just a facade.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Where I'm from, the neighborhoods have calls and chants. Did NPHC orgs do it first? Does it really matter?

It's funny you should mention this. When I was in undergrad, BGLOs did not have calls or handsigns (nor did Deltas collect elephants.) But Black students from various states did. The Delta call sounds very similar to what was then the New York call.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

It's funny you should mention this. When I was in undergrad, BGLOs did not have calls or handsigns (nor did Deltas collect elephants.) But Black students from various states did. The Delta call sounds very similar to what was then the New York call.

And when my grandmother pledged in '59, those things were not a part of her experience either.

The bolded bit is interesting.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

And again, when did the NPHC become a monolith? Alpha has more in common with Malik Fraternity, Inc., than some NPHC orgs.

NPHC traditions DO imitate others. Greek letters, rituals, grips, passwords, and handsigns didn't get created in a vacuum. The organizational structure wasn't unique. And as our organizations matured, we assumed the characteristics of our communities.

Where I'm from, the neighborhoods have calls and chants. Did NPHC orgs do it first? Does it really matter?

Did we have crossing jackets in 1906 or did they evolve over time?

We need perspective here.... sure, I agree with Chaos when she says traditions need to be acknowledged. But everything else is literally just a facade.

I see you and ladygreek's points, but the crossing jackets, the hand signs, and the terminology that we use is unique among our organizations and is not used among NPC/IFC organizations, at least not where I'm from.

ladygreek, you asked how BGLOs could get started without seeing another black student for weeks at a time. I was getting the impression that you thought this couldn't be possible. At IU it was possible, and it did happen. Our fraternity started off as Alpha Omega just to hold the 10 men together while the fraternity was being created. I can't speak for the other 8 GLOs, but I can for mine and it's history is accurate. Yes, black students would go days to weeks without seeing another black student.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I see you and ladygreek's points, but the crossing jackets, the hand signs, and the terminology that we use is unique among our organizations and is not used among NPC/IFC organizations, at least not where I'm from.

ladygreek, you asked how BGLOs could get started without seeing another black student for weeks at a time. I was getting the impression that you thought this couldn't be possible. At IU it was possible, and it did happen. Our fraternity started off as Alpha Omega just to hold the 10 men together while the fraternity was being created. I can't speak for the other 8 GLOs, but I can for mine and it's history is accurate. Yes, black students would go days to weeks without seeing another black student.

But that is my point. Rather than to continue to allow that to happen a support group was formed--Alpha Omega, which I guess became Kappa Alpha Nu. Thus those 10 Black men saw each other often I would assume.

Having first gone to a PWI that only had 50 Black students, we found ways to get together and be each other's support. So was IU's campus so big that folx literally didn't see each other?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I see you and ladygreek's points, but the crossing jackets, the hand signs, and the terminology that we use is unique among our organizations and is not used among NPC/IFC organizations, at least not where I'm from.

When I pledged we had sweaters not jackets. The other non-BGLOs had sweaters, too. The sweaters became windbreakers, then coach jackets.

In other words, not any of these current "traditions" are set in stone. And at least in Delta they are not listed in our Protocol and Traditions Manual as such. Who knows what the future generations of BGLOs will adopt?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I went to a black college so only NPHC GLOs existed on our campus. I can't speak for other GLOs but only our founding fathers created our rituals. We weren't jump started by another GLO that already existed.

I don't think anyone said that the Founders of our orgs did not create our rituals, but maybe the rits were influenced by other orgs such as the Masons, OES, or even other GLOs. Unless you talked to your Founders personally how would you know this didn't happen?

Personally, hearing this surprised me. I always thought NPC/IFC had done their own thing while we did ours. Now that I know this, yeah it does kind of bother me. This is a personal opinion so I hope I'm not offending any other organizations, but I think NPHC GLOs are unique in our own way. Our traditions imitate no others. I think we are often imitated but never duplicated as far as stepping, and greek clothing, and now from what I'm hearing, other GLOs calling each other sands? and now using the term crossing?

Just how unique are we? And to say our traditions imitate no other is incorrect. In fact the history of stepping did not start with BGLOs. And many of the traditions to which you refer began in the last 30 years are less--crossing jackets, hand signs, calls, etc. And as I said before even the term Sands is not universally used the same within the NPHC.

Lets not forget, we were started because we were not excepted into NPC/IFC GLOs, so in turn we started our own. African American students didn't have support groups back then. On the white campuses like IU and Cornell, black students would go weeks without seeing another black student, so with NPHC GLOs starting, they made great support groups for black students, so I don't see us actually copying anyone at all. We've done our own thing for the past 100 years and will continue to do our own thing. Basically, no I don't like to see any sororities or fraternities within the NPHC umbrella group imitated at all.

Interesting analogy since most of the NPHC orgs were founded at a HBCU. And if Black folx went for weeks at a PWI without seeing another Black student, how in the heck were they able to form a fraternity/sorority? There had to have been some kind of mechanism for them to come together.

[bejazd]

Do you think some of this could be a trend based in part on the universal appeal of hip-hop culture among young people? Sometimes I'm surprised by the music/dance/language/clothing that suburban kids of all colors enjoy today that would have made them posers when I was in high school/college. But they all seem to be okay with it...so isn't that a good thing?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Do you think some of this could be a trend based in part on the universal appeal of hip-hop culture among young people? Sometimes I'm surprised by the music/dance/language/clothing that suburban kids of all colors enjoy today that would have made them posers when I was in high school/college. But they all seem to be okay with it...so isn't that a good thing?

I am confused--what does hip hop have to do with this discussion?

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I don't think anyone said that the Founders of our orgs did not create our rituals, but maybe the rits were influenced by other orgs such as the Masons, OES, or even other GLOs. Unless you talked to your Founders personally how would you know this didn't happen?


Just how unique are we? And to say our traditions imitate no other is incorrect. In fact the history of stepping did not start with BGLOs. And many of the traditions to which you refer began in the last 30 years are less--crossing jackets, hand signs, calls, etc. And as I said before even the term Sands is not universally used the same within the NPHC.


Interesting analogy since most of the NPHC orgs were founded at a HBCU. And if Black folx went for weeks at a PWI without seeing another Black student, how in the heck were they able to form a fraternity/sorority? There had to have been some kind of mechanism for them to come together.

Actually since I went to two different PWI's it's not hard at all for me to see this being the case and I'm sure that it was. One school I went to in upstate Pennsylvania (where the Black population was damn near non-existent in the early 90's and still not all that plentiful today), had a Black population so small that we all knew eachother personally, and yes we could go all day without seeing another Black person. The only reason we saw eachother some days at all is because we made it a point to meet in the cafeteria for dinner. We also became friends so we hung out in eachother's rooms and we also had a Black Student Union so that is how we were able to do things together and socialize with one another. I believe creating these kinds of groups is how our founders and others at PWI's stayed connected and later formed greek letter organizations.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I don't think anyone said that the Founders of our orgs did not create our rituals, but maybe the rits were influenced by other orgs such as the Masons, OES, or even other GLOs. Unless you talked to your Founders personally how would you know this didn't happen?


Just how unique are we? And to say our traditions imitate no other is incorrect. In fact the history of stepping did not start with BGLOs. And many of the traditions to which you refer began in the last 30 years are less--crossing jackets, hand signs, calls, etc. And as I said before even the term Sands is not universally used the same within the NPHC.

When people say this they really need to clarify because it invalidates the role that NPHC greeks played as the creators of the art form we see and practice today as stepping. While the history of stepping can be traced to African tradition (and so can other things we do), what we have come to know as stepping in this country, what we are all practicing, what many are now imitating, did in fact begin with the NPHC orgs so let's not take away the credit that our brothers and sisters deserve in creating the artform as it exists today because that's not right or fair. And I see a lot of people these days...greek and non-greek trying to do this. So let's not do this or allow others to do it because we all know that once you allow others to take your shine, you'll never get it back.