Alpha Phi dies of alcohol poisioning at SDSU

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

If this poor girl used cocaine the night she died, and died from cocaine use, doesn't that make her a casual user?

And let me clarify, even if she used it for the first time that evening, doesn't that equal casual use?

No........someone that does a little blow every now and then on the weekends is a casual user in my mind. Hence the word "casual".

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Yeah, that was the WTF part.

He's just wrong about the cocaine use.

I think Tom may have this girl confused with a girl from SMU who died recently from ODing on coke. Her drug dealer left her body in a port-a-potty in Waco and tried to cover up her death as a kidnapping.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Seriously, if my parents had ever said to me (because that situation did occur) "now don't drink and drive because you might end up dead like Rob did since he got in Steve's car" I probably would have smacked them across the face. They told me not to drink and drive because I could get myself or others killed. They didn't need to use another human being or his/her misfortune to do that. If parents can't convey the gravity of the situation to their kids on its own merits, they're pathetic.

Sorry, but that is pathetic. I also think that if I can't have a conversation with my kid when something like this happens, that too is pathetic.

I never said anything about hitting someone with a hammer over the head -- that's your inference apparently based on bad experiences. I didn't even mention lecturing, like "Don't you do this or you might end up dead, too." Again, your assumption based on what seems to be your history.

I'm talking about conversations with my kids or other kids I might have some relationship with, such as at church or scouts (or chapters). I'm talking about letting the kid talk to me, letting him or her know I'll listen. I'm talking about listening to my kid talk about peer pressure. I'm talking about making sure (again) they know that they can call me anytime of night and I'll come get them, without questions and without lectures.

Yes, I hope they get it without me having to say anything, but no way am I going to risk my children's safety by assuming that, especially since I remember all too well the feeling that "it will never happen to me" at that age. Obviously, the conversation will be different if I'm confident that they "get it," as you seem to have, than if I don't know if they "get it" or not. But there will be a conversation. Not a lecture, a conversation.

Let my kids get mad at me. Let 'em smack me across the face. I can take that. What I can't take is going to my son's, my daughter's, or any other parent's child's funeral, so I'll happily risk them getting mad at me.

It's not a matter of "using the misfortune of another human being" to make a point. It's a matter of using the good and bad experiences that life presents to have meaningful conversations with my children.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

Alphagamuga, do you know what members of your chapter smoke weed, drop e, snort, etc.? Do you know which ones smoke? Do you know which ones drink underage? Do you know when each one of them is doing each one of those things? Do you really think that it's possible for girls in a sorority, especially in a medium-large sized chapter to know this information about each of their members? I completely agree with you that risk management should be about preventing deaths, but sometimes there is only so much information that you can know about a member, especially if she goes out of her way to hide things from the chapter, and I don't know about you, but I joined a sorority to have 40 sisters, not 40 policemen.

Back in the day, my answer to your questions would have been yes and that would have been accurate to about 90%.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Yeah, that was the WTF part.

He's just wrong about the cocaine use.

I really am not sure what "part" of the posting you think is wrong/incorrect.
Just FYI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/cocaine.html

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/cocaine/cocaine.shtml

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/cocaine.html

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/cocaine.html

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

, but I think it was the "covering up" connection to the cocaine rather than the dangers of the drug that people were struggling with.

Perhaps. But a few posters seemed to be going in another direction as well.
A bit of education and knowledge never hurts.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Kevin..........it is not difficult at all to conceal that you are coked up unless somebody knows exactly what to look for. I doubt that a bunch of girls at a big party would start checking out her pupils and the palms of her hands the minute she walked in the door. Furthermore, when you are doing a lot of blow, it pretty much cancels out the effects that alcohol have on you.........which is why it is dangerous to drink a lot and mix in cocaine.

I would think it'd be easy to conceal from people who didn't know what to look for, but what about the people she was using with? I guess it's possible that she consumed different substances with different groups, but it seems like there would have been a couple of people who might have recognized the danger she was in based on their own personal experience. I'm not limiting this to just sorority members or just the night of her death.

I don't think most drug or alcohol related deaths are in groups of people who up until the death had no previous experience with drugs and alcohol. It would seem that if we encourage people to take more responsibility for each other, some if it might be preventable, but maybe I'm kidding myself about the level of clear thinking people are capable of.

I read about the SMU girl on a blog, but I'm guessing she wasn't Greek on the reports would have emphasized it. In the report I read, her mom found a rolled up bill that had been used to snort cocaine in the girl's room in her condo a couple of weeks before her death. I'm not sure what one's mom should do in such situation, but it's surprising based on my family experience that she was available to meet with her drug dealer. Was the cause of death an OD in her case? I wasn't sure that the dealer hadn't killed her.

[macallan25]

I never heard the follow up, but all of the early indications showed overdose as the casue.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jon1856

I really am not sure what "part" of the posting you think is wrong/incorrect.
Just FYI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/cocaine.html

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/cocaine/cocaine.shtml

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/cocaine.html

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/cocaine.html

The part about not being able to be a casual cocaine user..........which I think is incorrect as well.

[UGAalum94]

What percentage of students at your college are probably casual cocaine users?

[macallan25]

I couldn't tell you........I don't know everyone.

But just based on personal experience at my school and many, many others throughout the South........casually blowing a little chach every now and then isn't something that is out of the ordinary at all. Definitely an '80s type revival going on right now.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by jon1856

I really am not sure what "part" of the posting you think is wrong/incorrect.
Just FYI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/cocaine.html

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/cocaine/cocaine.shtml

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/cocaine.html

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/cocaine.html

I'm going to make it simple and just go with the wiki one. Look at the sections under Usage and Addiction. Plenty of people use it but aren't addicts. It's the hip new party drug. It's a study-aid using the stimulant effects like Ritalin. I'm not minimizing it, but there are lot of abusers who aren't addicts.

Originally Posted by macallan25

I think Tom may have this girl confused with a girl from SMU who died recently from ODing on coke. Her drug dealer left her body in a port-a-potty in Waco and tried to cover up her death as a kidnapping.

I'm not really going to assume he actually knew what he was talking about. He doesn't get that kind of credit.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm going to make it simple and just go with the wiki one. Look at the sections under Usage and Addiction. Plenty of people use it but aren't addicts. It's the hip new party drug. It's a study-aid using the stimulant effects like Ritalin. I'm not minimizing it, but there are lot of abusers who aren't addicts.


I'm not really going to assume he actually knew what he was talking about. He doesn't get that kind of credit.

KISS can be good; however you may wish to take the time to read the other links.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

What percentage of students at your college are probably casual cocaine users?

While the following site does not give you that answer, it will give you the answer on drug related arrests:
http://www.securityoncampus.org/

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by jon1856

KISS can be good; however you may wish to take the time to read the other links.

Yeah or I could go based on my class on substance abuse last semeseter.

But to humor you
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/cocaine.html
States that it's extremely addictive, and dangerous no matter how frequent a user you are, but nothing suggesting there are no casual users.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/cocaine/cocaine.shtml
Is just a list of links that may be useful, but not in this particular situation.

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/cocaine.html
Same as the first one, it's addictive *shocking* and dangerous

And finally
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/cocaine.html
Addictive and dangerous

There's other information there, but not relating to this discussion, I don't need a link dump on cocaine to know that there are casual cocaine users. Next time you'd like to debate something don't just link dump please and thank you.