UCF Sig Ep suspended

[adpiucf]

I don't know anything about the situation of the sorority in question, but I know several alumnae members of the chapter, all of whom I greatly respect. I have no doubt the sorority will handle any internal issues with great tact and conduct recruitment with respect for its sisterhood and PNMs.

And no, I don't think PNMs need to know if a chapter is on probation if that probation does not affect them adversely... What I mean by this is that plenty of chapters go on probationary periods at any given time during the school year, and often the terms include submitting chapter minutes, holding additional membership workshops, etc. I don't think this is something that needs to be broadcast if it is already being dealt with. In the case of a probation where the chapter may not hold any kind of social events or participate in university events, then yes, a certain amount of disclosure might be deemed necessary. But in my experience, sororities are loathe to put chapters on this kind of probation in the fall because it can affect fall recruitment numbers and the budget set for the chapter when an expected number of PNMs are anticipated to help meet that budget and housing costs with their dues.

I don't think broadcasting "XYZ is on probation for hosting an unapproved social and now needs to have a workshop on the importance of meeting deadlines and submitting paperwork" does anything for anyone. If XYZ is on social probation, they can put a positive spin on it by promoting "Sisterhood Semester" and a huge variety of activities designed to celebrate their organization. It just depends... I would expect that advisers and nationals would work with the chapter officers to help a chapter complete a probation and if it is expected to affect recruitment, to find a "spin" to help them remain competitive.

[ZTAngel]

Originally Posted by TSteven

And I guess this is my point. Shouldn't PNMs know if a chapter is on probation? It just seems like it would be fair to all the PNMs to know what to expect socially their first semester. Especially since the probation is until the end of fall 2007.

"Restrictive Probation: The following organization is not permitted to host events involving alcohol. Any house parties, mixers, socials, events or recruitment activities must be alcohol-free (dry)."

My chapter has it handled. End of story. But thanks for everyone's concern.

Can we not talk about this anymore?

[PKPUCF]

Pi Kapp was (unfairly) suspended. However, please don't believe the OSI bullshit. We are currently using alternative methods to expose how corrupt and poorly run OSI is, which ultimately resulted in our initial suspension stemming from an '05 incident.

If you didn't know how poorly run and unjust OSI-Student Conduct is run, then you'll soon know. We're tired of sitting back and being trampled over while people make ignorant assumptions.

[Faith4Keep]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

UCF sorority alumnae, are you thinking what I'm thinking? (I'm thinking... who's left to do homecoming?)

There are lots of larger fraternities at UCF nowadays. The larger ones include: Alpha Tau Omega, Theta Chi, Phi Delta Theta, Beta Theta Pi, Delta Upsilon, Kappa Sigma, Sigma Chi... there's probably more that I can't think of right now since we're in the summer. There's also lots of smaller ones. For Greek Week the Office of Fraternity and Sorority Life determine who are large frats and who are smaller ones and pair them up with each of the sororities, but for Homecoming it's every group for themselves; fraternities match up if they want and serenade the sororities they want.

Secondly, I stand corrected- I meant to say probabtion, not suspended. My mistake!

Third, my personal opinion on the subject of groups on probation is that, while PNMs should be smart enough to keep up with the information that is on the OFSL website themselves, they are generally pretty ignorant about it. I think it should be said, and possibly the rho gammas or exec board for recruitment might discuss why a group would recieve probation of any kind. On the other hand, doing so may have a huge affect on the chapter's recruitment. Either way, I don't feel that anything should be 'covered up' for the sake of recruitment.

Finally, I'm not thrilled with the above poster who says they are going to "expose" OSI. I'm sure you are angry and upset with how things are happening, but it seems pretty clear to me (and a lot of my greek friends) that it was a pretty silly idea to hold a chapter event (with girls who will take lots of pictures and put them on facebook, nonetheless) when you are on social probation. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but I'm just surprised that no one stood up and said "This might just get us in more deep with the university than we already are". OSI is a fairly well run SGA entity, and I would suggest that if you have issues with the system, your best bet would be to discuss this with the office of Student Rights and Responsibilities, or talk to President Hitt about it at an Open Forum.

Sorry for the crazy long post!

[Kevin]

First of all, brothers need to be made aware that under no circumstances should there ever be cameras at these events. You can't prevent camera phones, etc., but obviously, if someone is walking around snapping pictures with their digital camera, tell them to stop or leave.

Next, if you're drinking, plastic opaque cups are cheap. They should absolutely be used, no question.

Lastly, talk to your chapter about what is and isn't okay to put on their myspace/facebook. Make sure your chapter's judicial officers have a policy for dealing with these sites.

Pictures have brought down several chapters in recent weeks. It's best not to engage in the behavior that'd get you in trouble, but assuming that you do, just an ounce of preparation can avoid most myspace/facebook snafus.

[Faith4Keep]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Pictures have brought down several chapters in recent weeks. It's best not to engage in the behavior that'd get you in trouble, but assuming that you do, just an ounce of preparation can avoid most myspace/facebook snafus.

Terrible, isn't it? Unfortuately, there are even more chapters that are dealing with PR issues regarding facebook, myspace, and alcohol.

[PKPUCF]

Originally Posted by Faith4Keep

Finally, I'm not thrilled with the above poster who says they are going to "expose" OSI. I'm sure you are angry and upset with how things are happening, but it seems pretty clear to me (and a lot of my greek friends) that it was a pretty silly idea to hold a chapter event (with girls who will take lots of pictures and put them on facebook, nonetheless) when you are on social probation. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but I'm just surprised that no one stood up and said "This might just get us in more deep with the university than we already are". OSI is a fairly well run SGA entity, and I would suggest that if you have issues with the system, your best bet would be to discuss this with the office of Student Rights and Responsibilities, or talk to President Hitt about it at an Open Forum.

Sorry for the crazy long post!

No offense- but your defense of OSI doesn't resonate with me because you haven't dealt with them as we have. We've had to deal with OSI for over a year and a half, and not at all because of us ourselves. What is your experience with OSI......and more particularly, Student Conduct?

To me, it seems as though you are running your mouth about Pi Kapp without any understanding of the facts.

Did you know it took 9 months for Student Conduct to hold a hearing, which was supposed to be done within 2 weeks of the accusation?

Did you know Pi Kapp was suspended in Fall '06 based upon testimony of a surpise witness, a clear violation of our student AND legal rights?

Did you know the surpise witness was never mentioned in the 9 months previous by our accuser? Did you know he was never identified, never appeared in court, and was never REQUESTED to appear?

Did you know that we submited an appeal co-written by a lawyer to OSC, requesting a follow-up hearing with the "myserty man" actually PRESENT and IDENTIFIED.........yet were DENIED? (Another clear violation of our rights).

Did you know OSI did not wait until our hearings about formal to decide our punishment?

I could go on and on. I don't pretend that you know all (if any) of the details of the massive debacle we've had with this office, but please don't comment on things you clearly don't understand.

Lastly, it didn't occur to us that a formal dinner held through a 3rd party vendor would land us 4 years. It was even explained to us, ridiculously, that a gathering of 5 or more brothers is considered a social fraternity function. So, going to dinner with 5 of my brothers was technically in violation of our suspension. Sometimes we should let common sense and logic supercede petty technicalities, no?

[Faith4Keep]

I've been very involved with OSI through my leadership in various student organizations. I know how they run and do things, and I've had plenty of problems with myself. Coincidently, most of the problems I've had with OSI have been fairness issues.

Like I said, I'm not pointing fingers and I'm not "running my mouth". But I had to slap my forehead when I was speaking to a girl (who is a mutual friend) and works at a UCF office when she said "OH yeah, I went to PI Kapp's formal and it was a blast!!". I had no idea about the rest of your debacle, but if it is true that you got together and had a 'formal' then I personally feel there is no excuse. You were on social probation and those were the terms. Regardless of what had previously happened, in any case like this you have two choices- suck it up and get through it, or cry out "Injustice!!!" and try to ignore it/fight back. Most of the time, sucking it up works better.

Unfortunately, the official event rule- that's one of the UCF rules that I'm heavily pursuing to get re-written right now by the Golden Rule committee. During a meeting of SGA's Student Advocacy Committee, we were reading over the proposed Medical Amnesty bill when I saw that when two members of any organization are socializing, it is considered an official event of that organization. I think that is absolutely rediculous. And while that rule is rarely used to define an RSO's event, it CAN be used to define one because that's what's currently written. I'm really, really sorry for that.

But- it's not like you were "uninformed". It did not have to be explained to you, because you signed a paper early in your college career that said that you understand the Golden Rule and will adhere to it, as well as any changes that the GR committee deem necessary (or something to this effect). Again, unfortunately, many student organizations (not just greek) can and will get in trouble under this stupid, rediculous rule. So, you can't be upset that it's being used against you if you did not read the rules. Rediculous, yes. Uninformed, unfortunately no.

I definitely agree with your last comment, that logic should supercede technicalities... but businesses and corporations, even educational institutions, use what's in writing.... (not logic). Sucks.

I can only assume what's going on (maybe they couldn't put together a unbiased Student Conduct hearing, since many of those on the committee are greek?) but because of the situation, I won't assume. I urge you, in fact I beg you, to not "expose" OSI in any crazy protest or going through the sentinel or whatever, which it sounds like you are wanting to do (another assumption). If you have any respect for your fellow students, and even moreso your fellow greeks, you will not cause more problems in the system.

What I CAN say is talk to President Hitt, Provost Hickey, and Dr. Ehasz about the situation in a respectful manner. They have open forums and from my personal experience, I have gotten several drawn-out campus-wide problems solved just by explaining the situation to them. I'll warn you though, they hate nothing more than an angry, disrespectful, impolite student who won't let the admins get a word out. You could also go through OMBUDS. You could talk to the Board of Trustees, even the Board of Governors. You could do so many more things before resorting to whatever you are going to do. Please, don't make it harder on the rest of us than it already is.

[PKPUCF]

Originally Posted by Faith4Keep

I've been very involved with OSI through my leadership in various student organizations. I know how they run and do things, and I've had plenty of problems with myself. Coincidently, most of the problems I've had with OSI have been fairness issues.

Like I said, I'm not pointing fingers and I'm not "running my mouth". But I had to slap my forehead when I was speaking to a girl (who is a mutual friend) and works at a UCF office when she said "OH yeah, I went to PI Kapp's formal and it was a blast!!". I had no idea about the rest of your debacle, but if it is true that you got together and had a 'formal' then I personally feel there is no excuse. You were on social probation and those were the terms. Regardless of what had previously happened, in any case like this you have two choices- suck it up and get through it, or cry out "Injustice!!!" and try to ignore it/fight back. Most of the time, sucking it up works better.

Unfortunately, the official event rule- that's one of the UCF rules that I'm heavily pursuing to get re-written right now by the Golden Rule committee. During a meeting of SGA's Student Advocacy Committee, we were reading over the proposed Medical Amnesty bill when I saw that when two members of any organization are socializing, it is considered an official event of that organization. I think that is absolutely rediculous. And while that rule is rarely used to define an RSO's event, it CAN be used to define one because that's what's currently written. I'm really, really sorry for that.

But- it's not like you were "uninformed". It did not have to be explained to you, because you signed a paper early in your college career that said that you understand the Golden Rule and will adhere to it, as well as any changes that the GR committee deem necessary (or something to this effect). Again, unfortunately, many student organizations (not just greek) can and will get in trouble under this stupid, rediculous rule. So, you can't be upset that it's being used against you if you did not read the rules. Rediculous, yes. Uninformed, unfortunately no.

I definitely agree with your last comment, that logic should supercede technicalities... but businesses and corporations, even educational institutions, use what's in writing.... (not logic). Sucks.

I can only assume what's going on (maybe they couldn't put together a unbiased Student Conduct hearing, since many of those on the committee are greek?) but because of the situation, I won't assume. I urge you, in fact I beg you, to not "expose" OSI in any crazy protest or going through the sentinel or whatever, which it sounds like you are wanting to do (another assumption). If you have any respect for your fellow students, and even moreso your fellow greeks, you will not cause more problems in the system.

What I CAN say is talk to President Hitt, Provost Hickey, and Dr. Ehasz about the situation in a respectful manner. They have open forums and from my personal experience, I have gotten several drawn-out campus-wide problems solved just by explaining the situation to them. I'll warn you though, they hate nothing more than an angry, disrespectful, impolite student who won't let the admins get a word out. You could also go through OMBUDS. You could talk to the Board of Trustees, even the Board of Governors. You could do so many more things before resorting to whatever you are going to do. Please, don't make it harder on the rest of us than it already is.

Where do I begin?

First- you admit yourself that OSC/OSI is unfair, yet tell me to "suck it up" and not protest? What on earth is that about? I should just accept the fact that an unfair organization took away my fraternity and not even try to formulate a response at all? I guess we should just sit back and let OSI do whatever they want with no checks or balances and trample anyones' rights they want? It's a good thing our justice system wasn't formed under your "suck it up" principle.

As far as The Golden Rule, why shouldn't OSI/OSC be held to that as well? Are you suggesting that they shouldn't be governed by the SAME rules they're charged to enforce? That is utterly ridiculous. Like I said, if that's the case then I feel terrible for the masses of people who will be trampled by this organization.

And, if somehow OSI is exposed- I'll say GOOD. If OSC can trample the rights of a BIG fraternity, I can only imagine what they're doing to invidiual students. As for "my fellow students", I'd be doing them a favor. OSC should be run fairly, which it clearly is not right now. If you say Pi Kapp should be held accountable (as in ME, etc.) then why shouldn't the people running OSI?

As for the "public forums"- what a joke. I've seen Hitt, etc. talk at those. It's a mere smokescreen for students to feel like they're actually represented. We've tried to talk with UCF and OSI, and every appeal has fallen on def ears. I've already highlighted how our rights were totally stomped all over.

But sorry- "sucking it up" is probably the worst idea I've ever heard. We have the right to fend for ourselves- not even OSI can take that away.

[Faith4Keep]

In an effort to keep this calm I'll leave all the stuff about OSI/OSC be. I do agree, however, that they should be held to the same standards. Unfortunately they are UCF entities, not RSOs.

You obviously don't believe me when I say I've contributed to solving NUMEROUS campus problems just by speaking up about them. If you've ever used the shuttle system, I've worked to make it more efficient (and now, more people use the shuttles than ever). The new letters on the parking garage? I brought up the idea. Why UCF stores carry more grocery store type items? Because I asked President Hitt, in front of a crowd of 150 or so, if he would walk from a dorm on campus to the local publix and back just to get some milk/eggs/bread. If you don't believe me, fine, but I'm telling you it's worth a shot.

Good luck with everything, I really hope that you find what you are looking for.

[PKPUCF]

Originally Posted by Faith4Keep

In an effort to keep this calm I'll leave all the stuff about OSI/OSC be. I do agree, however, that they should be held to the same standards. Unfortunately they are UCF entities, not RSOs.

You obviously don't believe me when I say I've contributed to solving NUMEROUS campus problems just by speaking up about them. If you've ever used the shuttle system, I've worked to make it more efficient (and now, more people use the shuttles than ever). The new letters on the parking garage? I brought up the idea. Why UCF stores carry more grocery store type items? Because I asked President Hitt, in front of a crowd of 150 or so, if he would walk from a dorm on campus to the local publix and back just to get some milk/eggs/bread. If you don't believe me, fine, but I'm telling you it's worth a shot.

Good luck with everything, I really hope that you find what you are looking for.

I commend you for those things. However, asking Hitt to investigate unfairness and possibly corruption in the 2nd biggest student organization is a bit different than asking for groceries and letters on buildings. FYI- We've sent a letter to Hitt twice now and have only received generic, info-less replies.

[adpiucf]

Stop sending letters and call his office to schedule a meeting. It's going to be far more proactive on the part of your chapter to have a 2-way conversation than continue the paper trail.

Some of your chapter's Founding Fathers are among my closest friends. I hope that the men who have come after them will do all they can to follow the Golden Rule and seek fairness and responsibility in a mature way befitting UCF and your organization. I wish you all the best.

[TSteven]

If I may, what is the UCF Golden Rule? And what is the Golden Rule committee that oversees it?

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by TSteven

If I may, what is the UCF Golden Rule? And what is the Golden Rule committee that oversees it?

The Golden Rule (and committee) are the formal rules for student conduct at the university. The name is a spin on the "Do unto others/Golden Rule" and the university's colors (we are the Golden Knights... ok, they just dropped the word "Golden" and now we are just the Knights.... but our colors are still Black and Gold!)

[FSUZeta]

the NPC greenbook states that sororities will not be punished by suspending their recruiting, or forfeiting their new member classes, so i would imagine that a discussion by recruitment counselors to explain what "probation" means and to advise pnms if any sorority chapters are currently on probation would, in effect, be punishing them, thus violating NPC policy.

it could also be considered a rush infraction if any sorority happened to "mention" anothers probation to a pnm.