Random: Recruitment

[bruinaphi]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Just to clarify...because I've been out of the rush loop for awhile. But if A PNM didn't max her options throughout the entire rush week...by accepting as many invitations as she could and attending the parties...putting a house down on her her pref card that released her after Round I won't make her eligible to get a bid if she ISPs. am I correct?

I am not sure what you are asking, but here's the deal.

A PNM must maximize her options throughout recruitment, including at preference, in order to be eligible to be a quota addition.

If a woman ISPs or fails to maximize she is not eligible to be placed as a quota addition but she is eligible to be snap bid or COB'd.

You really cannot put down chapters which you did not visit for preference on your MRABA for two reasons: (1) the MRABA provides that you can only rank chapters at which you attend events; and (2) most of the recruitment management software is set to prevent this from happening.

[OrangeJuice]

From my experience, gamma chis don't always give you all the information. I really feel like the system at some schools are more structured to fill houses than they are to find the perfect fit for PNMs. Here's my advice:
1. Ask anything you want to know about the houses. If you want to know if a particular house has a religious affiliation or is on social probation, you have to ask point blank. When you beat around the bush, you may not get an objective response.
2. Don't feel bad about asking questions. It is your prerogative. If you're going to pay thousands of dollars to an organization, you deserve to know anything you want about it.
3. Don't feel obligated to rank a house high on your card just because they were nice to you. Or just because you have a friend in the house. You're doing this for yourself, and you have to consider all the factors that are important to you when you rank houses. You need to look out for your own interests. Besides, you can still be friends with these girls even if you're not in their sorority.
4. But at the same time, don't rank a house low on your card just because it isn't top tier or a face house.
5. Go in knowing that rush isn't always fair. You may have been the pinnacle of popularity in high school, and you still only get asked back to houses you don't want. Chances are, most of your competition was probably just as popular. And sometimes, you just don't understand why you didn't get asked back to a house and another girl did. Don't let it make you bitter, and don't take it personally.
6. If you end up getting a bid for a house that you don't want, take it anyway. You might end up liking it.
7. Try to look beyond the rush parties. Do you like the house's philanthropy? Are members of the house active on campus or in the community? What are the personal expectations that the house has for its members. Make sure you choose organizations you'd be proud to be a part of.

Not everyone will agree with everything I say. These are just my opinions.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuice

6. If you end up getting a bid for a house that you don't want, take it anyway. You might end up liking it.

I agree with this. When I was a Rho Gamma this spring, one of my friends from high school went through and she ranked two chapters and got her second choice. She was crushed; even her Rho Gamma, who was in the chapter that she wanted, thought for sure that she would get her chapter. I explained to her that there's nothing she can do at this point, especially because she was a sophomore. There was no mistake. There is no getting a bid from #1 next semester. There is no getting a bid as a junior next spring. Your only choice is to give this group a try and you can walk away at any time, so why walk away before bid day?

ETA: She ended up being very happy in her #2 choice and accepted the fact that there was more than one good fit.

[CZAXOTerp]

Originally Posted by JessSigKap

I agree with this. When I was a Rho Gamma this spring, one of my friends from high school went through and she ranked two chapters and got her second choice. She was crushed; even her Rho Gamma, who was in the chapter that she wanted, thought for sure that she would get her chapter. I explained to her that there's nothing she can do at this point, especially because she was a sophomore. There was no mistake. There is no getting a bid from #1 next semester. There is no getting a bid as a junior next spring. Your only choice is to give this group a try and you can walk away at any time, so why walk away before bid day?

I agree w/ this as well, but I think it's easier to say to someone who is a freshman or perhaps a sophomore who transferred in than someone who has already spent 3+ semesters on campus and perhaps has gotten her heart set on a group (which we know a PNM shouldn't do, but sometimes it's tough not to)

Additionally PNM's who go thru rush and get & accept their 2nd (or 3rd) choice should smile & shut up about it immediately. The new member class that came into my chapter my sophmore year had a group of girls (like 4 or 5) who all pref'd another house together & put it first, but ended up in our house. Their attitudes were bad in the beginning- they thought they were better than some of their NM class because they had pref'd this house- we had to break it down to them- they didn't GET that house, that house didn't WANT them enough to put them on the 1st bid list or they would be there... at one point I told them they weren't "almost in that 'other house'" and that they needed to get over themselves and that they weren't helping anyone including themselves w/ their haughty attitude- if anything they looked like sore losers.
They ended up being a good group of sisters, and one of them even went on to be president but I remember wanting to smack them for a while!

[NUBlue&Blue]

I guess I was very lucky, I think I would've been happy in any of the three houses where I preffed way back in the day. I had been on campus long enough to know everybody's reputation and a lot of girls in each chapter, and although they were all different, I think I could've found a place in any of them. Maybe this is one of the advantages of a big system--I see a much different story on a campus with only half a dozen or so chapters. Sometimes if you don't get invited back to a place where you thought you'd fit, there isn't an alternative that seems right.

[bejazd]

Thanks BruinAPhi...you actually did answer my question about elibility to receive a bid as a quota addition with your earlier post I just didn't read it carefully enough. Please forgive!

So if you really only want to accept a bid from one house that invited you to Preference, I guess you can ISP and take your chances. But it's a really bad bet.

Rush counselors used to encourage PNMs to list any house on the Pref card from whom they were willing to accept a bid...even if they had not attended their Pref party. I have a sister who was invited to three houses at Pref, regretted AB, went to XYZ and QQQ's Pref parties, decided she wanted XYZ most, didn't want a bid from QQQ, but put down AB as a second choice on her pref card. She of course got a bid from AB, was heartbroken for about 5 minutes, then went to pledge day and spent the rest of her life happily as an AB!

and you too can live happily ever after if you choose to!!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bruinaphi

I am not sure what you are asking, but here's the deal.

A PNM must maximize her options throughout recruitment, including at preference, in order to be eligible to be a quota addition.

If a woman ISPs or fails to maximize she is not eligible to be placed as a quota addition but she is eligible to be snap bid or COB'd.

You really cannot put down chapters which you did not visit for preference on your MRABA for two reasons: (1) the MRABA provides that you can only rank chapters at which you attend events; and (2) most of the recruitment management software is set to prevent this from happening.

What if there was a chapter you repeatedly tried to drop throughout recruitment that kept asking you back, all the way through pref, and that you would rather have your head cut off than join? Are you saying that she has to put them down just to cover her butt?

That kind of goes against the whole "mutual selection process" concept. It can essentially force a PNM to put down a group she doesn't want if she wants another group who will probably make quota. Then she ends up screwed with a group she doesn't want and the sorority ends up screwed with a PNM who didn't want them.

If this is what "quota additions" are, I'm glad my school never had them.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What if there was a chapter you repeatedly tried to drop throughout recruitment that kept asking you back, all the way through pref, and that you would rather have your head cut off than join? Are you saying that she has to put them down just to cover her butt?

That kind of goes against the whole "mutual selection process" concept. It can essentially force a PNM to put down a group she doesn't want if she wants another group who will probably make quota. Then she ends up screwed with a group she doesn't want and the sorority ends up screwed with a PNM who didn't want them.

If this is what "quota additions" are, I'm glad my school never had them.

Exactly. This is why sometimes maximizing options isn't always the best choice.

[bruinaphi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What if there was a chapter you repeatedly tried to drop throughout recruitment that kept asking you back, all the way through pref, and that you would rather have your head cut off than join? Are you saying that she has to put them down just to cover her butt?

That kind of goes against the whole "mutual selection process" concept. It can essentially force a PNM to put down a group she doesn't want if she wants another group who will probably make quota. Then she ends up screwed with a group she doesn't want and the sorority ends up screwed with a PNM who didn't want them.

If this is what "quota additions" are, I'm glad my school never had them.

No, a PNM should never rank a chapter at Pref if she has no desire to join that group.

Quota additions are a very good way of insuring that women who play by the rules and maximize their options throughout recruitment do not go unmatched on bid day.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bruinaphi

No, a PNM should never rank a chapter at Pref if she has no desire to join that group.

Quota additions are a very good way of insuring that women who play by the rules and maximize their options throughout recruitment do not go unmatched on bid day.

But the woman in my example DID play by the rules, and although she won't go "unmatched" she and the sorority will be a bad match.

Say she goes into pref with 2 groups: ABC and XYZ. The max pref parties you can go to is 3.

ABC she loves, they love her, but they always make quota and are at total and to top it off, there are a ton of ABC legacies going through recruitment. She knows they might make quota before they even get to her, so she wants to have the hope of maybe being a quota addition. No hard feelings...that's just the way it is.

XYZ she can't stand, has tried to drop them, but they keep inviting her back and in order to be considered for quota additions, she cannot decline their invites as she must "maximize her options."

She goes to pref, puts down ABC #1 and XYZ #2. ABC has exhausted their quota additions before they even get to her...so she's stuck with XYZ.

Or, she doesn't even want to entertain the thought of XYZ, so she suicides ABC. ABC makes quota from their first bid list, so they won't be COBing or snapping, and cannot add her as a quota addition so she suicided.

It sounds like a crappy deal to me any way around, and a way for the bigger sororities to get bigger.

[bejazd]

Originally Posted by 33girl

ABC makes quota from their first bid list, so they won't be COBing or snapping, and cannot add her as a quota addition so she suicided.

It sounds like a crappy deal to me any way around, and a way for the bigger sororities to get bigger.

Isn't that where the logic/principle behind the new RFM is supposed to step in? A good Panhellenic Rush Coordinator is going to look at ABC's returns before Pref invites are issued, and see the number of legacies they are carrying and look at how many spots ABC might potentially fill with legacies. Looking at ABC's historical stats she's going to have a very good idea of exactly how many women ABC should invite to pref. When it works right, a rushee who has little or no hope of actually receiving a bid from ABC is never invited to Pref in the first place.

But it is an imperfect system, and you are right...some parts of sorority rush just suck.

On an aside, do you really think that the biggest houses get bigger because of quota additions...or because they consistently make quota and retain their members?

[dgdramadawg]

Say a girl has two pref parties and is only interested in one.

Couldn't a girl "get sick" during the party that she is not interested in? Thus, she would only be attending an event for one house and according to the rules ("you can only rank a chapter you visited an event for") she could only rank that house.

Right? Or not right?

I'm thinking "out loud" here, trying to think of a way a girl could cheat the system.

[bruinaphi]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But the woman in my example DID play by the rules, and although she won't go "unmatched" she and the sorority will be a bad match.

Say she goes into pref with 2 groups: ABC and XYZ. The max pref parties you can go to is 3.

ABC she loves, they love her, but they always make quota and are at total and to top it off, there are a ton of ABC legacies going through recruitment. She knows they might make quota before they even get to her, so she wants to have the hope of maybe being a quota addition. No hard feelings...that's just the way it is.

XYZ she can't stand, has tried to drop them, but they keep inviting her back and in order to be considered for quota additions, she cannot decline their invites as she must "maximize her options."

She goes to pref, puts down ABC #1 and XYZ #2. ABC has exhausted their quota additions before they even get to her...so she's stuck with XYZ.

Or, she doesn't even want to entertain the thought of XYZ, so she suicides ABC. ABC makes quota from their first bid list, so they won't be COBing or snapping, and cannot add her as a quota addition so she suicided.

It sounds like a crappy deal to me any way around, and a way for the bigger sororities to get bigger.

While what you describe used to be the case, it is not under the RFM. If she ranks both ABC & XYZ and ABC fills to Quota before they reach her on their bid list she will match to XYZ if she is high enough on their list. If she is not then she will be placed as a quota addition. Where she matches as a quota addition depends on three things: (1) who she ranked first; (2) the relative recruiting strength of ABC & XYZ and (3) where she is on ABC & XYZ's bid lists. The goal of the RFM is to level the playing field, so you will not see the "big chapters" taking all of the quota additions. Actually, the situations where we see extreme quota additions are usually campuses where a chapter that has traditionally struggled in formal recruitment really excels under the RFM and exactly the opposite happens.

[UGAalum94]

33Girl,

I guess you're right, but the thing about your example is that the PNM really doesn't have a shot at the one she wants anyway. If she's sure, she should suicide because she won't get them as an addition. And if the other group usually goes through almost their whole bid list to match to quota, she'll probably match to them anyway in regular big matching, never even getting to QA.

For a girl who is interested in joining a group and is willing to give all the groups a try, then quota additions and guaranteed matching are great things but they don't guarantee a bid at your top choice or the big certainly would get bigger.

It does seem that quota additions could really help some girls who used to "mismatch." Let's say a girl prefs three middle groups all of whom she'd happily take a bid from. In the olden days, her ranking the groups differently than where she was on their bid lists really could have affected her outcome IF all groups matched to quota before going all the way through their lists. Now with quota additions, this girl would still get matched to a group that she wanted and that wanted her. (Right? It's the historic example that I'm not sure of. I'm fascinated by bid matching, but I can never be sure I understand it.)

At so many competitive rushes, PNM have to decide at some point to go with the groups that want them or to drop. There's not much they can do to get picked up by their top choices.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bruinaphi

While what you describe used to be the case, it is not under the RFM. If she ranks both ABC & XYZ and ABC fills to Quota before they reach her on their bid list she will match to XYZ if she is high enough on their list. If she is not then she will be placed as a quota addition. Where she matches as a quota addition depends on three things: (1) who she ranked first; (2) the relative recruiting strength of ABC & XYZ and (3) where she is on ABC & XYZ's bid lists. The goal of the RFM is to level the playing field, so you will not see the "big chapters" taking all of the quota additions. Actually, the situations where we see extreme quota additions are usually campuses where a chapter that has traditionally struggled in formal recruitment really excels under the RFM and exactly the opposite happens.

So in other words, ABC should be down to the bare bones at pref (i.e just the amount of girls to fill quota, or maybe a few over) and our example rushee should have been released way before pref?

Can you take someone you released before pref as a quota addition or do they have to have attended your pref?

And yes, hating a chapter has nothing to do with it being small or weak a lot of the time. It can have to do with things like the chapter having a rep for hazing.