Hazing dilemma...

[tallgreekalum]

This gets into the whole "letter of the law" vs letter of the real law. Most of us would not agree with state law/university definitions of hazing. Often, requiring a pledge pin could be illegal. Sending pledges to a "greek 101" type anti-hazing meeting many schools require could be illegal

I think that our position, pragmatically, is to employ a "stupidity meter", so to speak. Public pledge humiliation, for instance, is probably treated more seriously that private activities. Is that right? I'm reminded of the line from Animal House, "they can't do that to our pledges, .........."

I think the key is to get members to think about each activity they involve pledges in and what it is supposed to achieve, and try to design activites that accomplish the same goals in as low-risk a way as possible. But often "pride goeth before the fall" If everything else is going well, chapters are often reluctant to address pledge program issues.

[ladygreek]

Heck, we don't have a problem suspending an old chapter. We have suspended Alpha Chapter on more than one occasion.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Heck, we don't have a problem suspending an old chapter. We have suspended Alpha Chapter on more than one occasion.

Word. Same goes for my org.

[AGDee]

I agree with adpiucf that it doesn't have to be quite that black and white. Education and extra support can go a long way in turning an otherwise strong chapter around with regards to hazing attitudes. Some of that depends too on how serious the infractions are though and how widespread and ingrained the problematic behaviors are. Just saying "Don't do that anymore" also isn't enough though. You have to actually teach them how to do it differently because they really don't know. Sometimes you can find ways to turn a tradition gone wrong back into something positive with a few changes so the basic idea is the same but the way it is implemented is more safe. It's also more difficult if the general campus culture encourages it. I have definitely heard "But the other chapters are WORSE" as a defense and that doesn't cut it.

[Hayden Fox]

I think it should be left up more to each individual chapter. I don't think some 50 year old man from 1000 miles away should decide what I can and can not do, and I'm not just talking about hazing or anything like that. I'm talking about dry houses, too. Why should a 21 yr old not be able to drink a beer at his house if he wants to? I don't break a lot of rules, but some of the rules made by Nationals are stupid.

Originally Posted by Hayden Fox

I don't think some 50 year old man from 1000 miles away should decide what I can and can not do...

Then why'd you join your fraternity in the first place?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by OTW

Then why'd you join your fraternity in the first place?

I don't think that has anything remotely close to do with reasons for joining a fraternity. I joined SAE at Texas because my father and grandfather pledged SAE, I liked the guys, it has a great house, and has a strong reputation on campus. Taking into account the rules and regulations made up by a bunch of guys in Illinois didn't really figure into my equation.

I disagree with a ton of new things that are IHQ has proposed........it doesn't mean that my reasoning for joining my particular fraternity should be questioned.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Hayden Fox

I think it should be left up more to each individual chapter. I don't think some 50 year old man from 1000 miles away should decide what I can and can not do, and I'm not just talking about hazing or anything like that. I'm talking about dry houses, too. Why should a 21 yr old not be able to drink a beer at his house if he wants to? I don't break a lot of rules, but some of the rules made by Nationals are stupid.

Why not join a local/take your chapter local?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why not join a local/take your chapter local?

Trust me Kevin, if it was this easy, it would be done quite often at schools like mine.

[tallgreekalum]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why not join a local/take your chapter local?

Ahh! There's the question

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Sugar08

Word. Same goes for my org.

I know .

[fectin]

I would make them sit through many, many boring meetings.
That's something noone likes, and it's a clear causal relationship: "If we hit people with bats, we have to do sensitivity training again."
Really bad cases are one thing, but to just get people to be a bit more civilised? Long, boring meetings.