Oldest chapter in continual operation

[ZZ-kai-]

Mr. Knox didn't create the 'Man of Principle', a bunch of old wealthy alumni did in the 90's. As for the topic of this discussion, I guess you've mis-read what we're discussing here: "Oldest chapter in continual operation".

"Oldest Chapter in Continual Operation" would be to me that it's the fraternity or sorority chapter that was chartered earlier than any other chapter which has never been inactive, shut down, disbanded or off campus.

HENCE: Gamma Chapter of Beta Theta Pi, chartered (or established, it's not like we had conventions back then where they had 1,000 in attendance to applaud the chartering) on June 1, 1842 - AND IT'S NEVER BEEN INACTIVE, not even for one day. That meets the requirements of this topic. It's not a bragging thing, it's just factual.

Now, if you're stating that your Mother chapter, and 4 other ADPhi chapters are older - well, no kidding. We all can read a timeline of events in the Bairds Manual (Yes, and you're welcome, Baird was a Beta). However, each of those chapters have had inactive periods, thus not meeting the requirements of the question.

Just because you have 'older' chapters and they MAY BE open today, doesn't mean it was 'continuious'.

Do you see what is going on here? I'll even re-post the original question for you to re-read:

What chapter in your group has never shut down, DU's oldest chapter in continual operation is at Hamilton College in New York, founded in 1847 this group is 159 years old- never once inactive. The university taking over fraternity houses has not stopped this group, 50-60 members every year going strong.

Think about it how many voluntary associations have lasted 150 + years Greeks do something right.

[tallgreekalum]

Sir, your rudeness is only exceeded by your bullheadedness. I don't need a lecture from you on what we are talking about. Perhaps you do. College "recognition" is not how most fraternities would define an active chapter. Some do. Are your Canadian chapters somehow"Inactive" because most Canadian schools choose not to have a relationship? Amherst claims to be fraternity-free, yet five chapters exist there. Or I guess they don't, in your world
You've chosen to ignore the evidence your own brother has provided us. Nothing I say will change your mind, and I am sure you will continue to delude your pledges with your incorrect statements. Just don't expect anyone else to buy into it. I have proven that Kappa Alpha's Union Chapter appears to be the oldest continously operational chapter. You've proven that you feel evidence is irrelevant. I'm just glad you're not representing AD. I await your undoubtedly rude, disprovable response.

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

Mr. Knox didn't create the 'Man of Principle', a bunch of old wealthy alumni did in the 90's. As for the topic of this discussion, I guess you've mis-read what we're discussing here: "Oldest chapter in continual operation".

"Oldest Chapter in Continual Operation" would be to me that it's the fraternity or sorority chapter that was chartered earlier than any other chapter which has never been inactive, shut down, disbanded or off campus.

HENCE: Gamma Chapter of Beta Theta Pi, chartered (or established, it's not like we had conventions back then where they had 1,000 in attendance to applaud the chartering) on June 1, 1842 - AND IT'S NEVER BEEN INACTIVE, not even for one day. That meets the requirements of this topic. It's not a bragging thing, it's just factual.

Now, if you're stating that your Mother chapter, and 4 other ADPhi chapters are older - well, no kidding. We all can read a timeline of events in the Bairds Manual (Yes, and you're welcome, Baird was a Beta). However, each of those chapters have had inactive periods, thus not meeting the requirements of the question.

Just because you have 'older' chapters and they MAY BE open today, doesn't mean it was 'continuious'.

Do you see what is going on here? I'll even re-post the original question for you to re-read:

[banditone]

Settle it with boxing gloves behind the house.

[ZZ-kai-]

Not sure what you're talking about below about my own brother...but anyway, last I checked, KA was inactive at Union since 2003 and I don't recall this 'evidence' that you speak of. So, how can they be the 'Oldest Chapter in Continual Operation'? I think your Bairds Manual is a little out of date, eventhough I do realize your looking at the latest and greatest edition. But, you need to update your facts.

PS: Kappa Alpha - Union & Williams (both inactive, Williams since 1983)

Originally Posted by tallgreekalum

You've chosen to ignore the evidence your own brother has provided us................I have proven that Kappa Alpha's Union Chapter appears to be the oldest continously operational chapter. You've proven that you feel evidence is irrelevant.

[AXi1257]

I need some munchies for this!!!

[tallgreekalum]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

Not sure what you're talking about below about my own brother...but anyway, last I checked, KA was inactive at Union since 2003 and I don't recall this 'evidence' that you speak of. So, how can they be the 'Oldest Chapter in Continual Operation'? I think your Bairds Manual is a little out of date, eventhough I do realize your looking at the latest and greatest edition. But, you need to update your facts.

PS: Kappa Alpha - Union & Williams (both inactive, Williams since 1983)

I was quoting Baird's but you are right, it is getting old. You mention KA, because it fits your argument, but here are the links for most of the active chapters I mentioned in my last post.
Psi Upsilon-Union Chapter http://www.psiu.org/fr/index.htm
Delta Phi -NYU Chapter http://www.deltaphi.org/doc/chapters.cfm
Sigma Phi Union& Hamilton Chapters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_Phi
Lambda Iota Vermont http://www.lambdaiota.org/

I have personally visited both Hamilton and Union many times over the last thirty years, and both have been in constant operation during that time. Hamilton College withdrew recognition, but the chapter operated as normal that entire time. I have extended you the courtesy of believing that your chapter dates continuously from 1842, please extend me the same courtesy.

And, glad we could entertain the rest of you I just don't suffer oldest, biggest best statements very well, as some of you may have noticed from some of my earlier posts.

[banditone]

Ahhhh. Now we reach the heart of the confusion, and why it will be impossible to determine a true answer to "continuous" operation.

Very confusing if you say the University booted them; or stopped recognizing them - and they "continued" to meet and stuff.

So, if your chapter gets shut down by nationals or the campus itself, and you continue to meet with your brothers; hang out, party, etc. That counts as staying operational and alive? That would mean pretty much every chapter booted is still "operational" in a sense.

[ZZ-kai-]

Well, I guess if you're going to stretch it that far, the Flat Hat Club, errrrrrrr, Kappa Sigma has us all beat - they're back to the 1400's. That is unless you trace your ancestory back 10-20 generations and use that as your founding date.

Enough of this.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

Aren't you guys co-ed anyway?

You're thinking of the Alpha Delta Phi Society, formed in 1992 by four chapters of the Alpha Delta Phi Fraternity that desired to be co-ed. The two groups are separate, but share a license to the name Alpha Delta Phi.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by banditone

Ahhhh. Now we reach the heart of the confusion, and why it will be impossible to determine a true answer to "continuous" operation.

Very confusing if you say the University booted them; or stopped recognizing them - and they "continued" to meet and stuff.

So, if your chapter gets shut down by nationals or the campus itself, and you continue to meet with your brothers; hang out, party, etc. That counts as staying operational and alive? That would mean pretty much every chapter booted is still "operational" in a sense.

If the GLO's HQ recognizes the chapter (not the chapter stating such, only HQ) then the chapter may claim to be in continuous operation.

Continuous operation:
GLO HQ continuous recognition of chapter / University continuous recognition of chapter
GLO HQ continuous recognition of chapter / University does not recognition chapter at any/some point in time

Non-continuous operation:
GLO HQ does not recognition chapter at any/some point in time / University continuous recognition of chapter
GLO HQ does not recognition chapter at any/some point in time / University does not recognition chapter at any/some point in time

I posted this question before, and sense no one replied to it, I'll ask again. Would a chapter that either reorganized or is recolonize - yet never closed per say (i.e. the charter is never pulled) - be considered as continuous?

If there are any hold over members, then of course the chapter is still active. What I wounder about is something along this line.

A chapter has all their current active members (i.e. still attending the college) go alum at the end of say the spring 2007 semester. Then in the fall of 2007, there is a new pledge class and members. Would this be considered continuous?

ETA: Added "some" to the following: "...does not recognition chapter at any point in time" such that it now reads "does not recognition chapter at any/some point in time". I didn't intend the emphasis to be any, but some.

[ZZ-kai-]

Good questions, but I think it's more cut/dry than that. If you have a charter, you're a chapter. No charter, no chapter. To answer your question: I posted this question before, and sense no one replied to it, I'll ask again. Would a chapter that either reorganized or is recolonize - yet never closed per say (i.e. the charter is never pulled) - be considered as continuous? I think that if the charter is not pulled, then they're still a chapter. If the charter is pulled, then they can't be an 'active' chapter.

Originally Posted by TSteven

If the GLO's HQ recognizes the chapter (not the chapter stating such, only HQ) then the chapter may claim to be in continuous operation.

Continuous operation:
GLO HQ continuous recognition of chapter / University continuous recognition of chapter
GLO HQ continuous recognition of chapter / University does not recognition chapter at any point in time

Non-continuous operation:
GLO HQ does not recognition chapter at any point in time / University continuous recognition of chapter
GLO HQ does not recognition chapter at any point in time / University does not recognition chapter at any point in time

I posted this question before, and sense no one replied to it, I'll ask again. Would a chapter that either reorganized or is recolonize - yet never closed per say (i.e. the charter is never pulled) - be considered as continuous?

If there are any hold over members, then of course the chapter is still active. What I wounder about is something along this line.

A chapter has all their current active members (i.e. still attending the college) go alum at the end of say the spring 2007 semester. Then in the fall of 2007, there is a new pledge class and members. Would this be considered continuous?

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by tallgreekalum

I was quoting Baird's but you are right, it is getting old. You mention KA, because it fits your argument, but here are the links for most of the active chapters I mentioned in my last post.

Psi Upsilon-Union Chapter http://www.psiu.org/fr/index.htm
Delta Phi -NYU Chapter http://www.deltaphi.org/doc/chapters.cfm
Sigma Phi Union& Hamilton Chapters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_Phi
Lambda Iota Vermont http://www.lambdaiota.org/

I have personally visited both Hamilton and Union many times over the last thirty years, and both have been in constant operation during that time. Hamilton College withdrew recognition, but the chapter operated as normal that entire time. I have extended you the courtesy of believing that your chapter dates continuously from 1842, please extend me the same courtesy.

And, glad we could entertain the rest of you I just don't suffer oldest, biggest best statements very well, as some of you may have noticed from some of my earlier posts.

I appreciate the links you provided for us. However, I was unable to find anything specific regarding continual operation/existence. And if I missed the specific references, please accept my apology in advance.

To be clear, I do not question that any of these chapters might still be contentiously active since their founding (original charter date). Yet, since you are someone who doesn't - as you put it - "suffer oldest, biggest best statements very well", I'm sure you will appreciate that just providing a link that only lists the founding (charter) date does not necessarily support the claim that the chapter in question has been contentiously active since their founding. Again, I have no reason to doubt you. But the proof is in the pudding. So would you happen to have any specific references (from their HQ's perceptive would be best) stating such? It might help to settle this discussion.

And while it is quite commendable that the Vermont local fraternity Lambda Iota had it's founding in 1834, again their website does not say if they have been active every year since 1834. But even so, the original question is directed toward an organization that has more than one chapter. "What chapter in your group has never shut down". As such, if the Lambda Iota chapter is to be considered in this discussion, they would need to have at least one other chapter. It appears from their website that they do not.

[MysticCat]

Just recently learned that our oldest chapter in continuous operation is Delta at Ithaca College, chartered in 1901.