White men in NPHC

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

But would you say that that is the underlying purpose of most BGLOs above anything else?

In a word, yes; albeit primarily the Black communities.

[Laak 315]

I'm from a smaller school in Oklahoma so I am not familiar with the "D9". Could you explain what that is?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Intelligent thinking and honest people would not based any decisions on skin color. Especially if an interest shows characteristics that the D9 seeks.

Aren't you admonishing us for making our own organization's choices?

Um, no. I'm not admonishing anyone. Disagreeing? Yes. Commenting? Yes. Acting like I choose who joins your org? No. The organizations welcome membership from all races. I personally have a problem with people who don't.

Do you really think that most non-African Americans stroll up to our "areas" and say they are interested?

Couldn't it be that folks of a different ethnic group automatically are interacting or hanging out with African Americans and feel much more comfortable in this setting and decide to pursue a membership?

No, and yeah, I totally understand that. Thus my assumption that the average white interest would be just as dedicated as a black one.

Since NIC/NPC membership drives are inherently different and we do not actively recruit members, and our membership intake extends joining invitations to college graduates, then by default, one who wants to pursue membership would have to take a completely different course of action than what is done in traditional greek organization.

Yes, I understand that and nothing I've said contradicts that.

So, when you say to us "tsk tsk on you D9, you have irresponsible individual members", how do you think that belittling makes us feel?

Except I'm not. I'm saying tsk tsk individual members, that's biased and disappointing in today's society particularly when it goes against the values of your organization. If you're not one of those members, you're not getting "tsked." (And frankly, I'm not really "tsk"ing either.) I commented on a post, I'm not taking on the system. My opinion only matters as much as you want it to as I'm not a member of the D9 and thus can only speak as a fellow Greek.

Hell, I've rather enjoyed this discussion except for the part where I have to keep explaining that I'm aware it's only "one" vote and that the D9 as a whole is open to non-black members. Also, yes, we recruit members differently. Yes the D9 has a specific background. And yes, it is a private organization that can choose its members how it likes. There, I really hope I don't have to type any of those again, because I feel like a Myspace page that someone keeps refreshing. ("Broken Record" is so old fashioned.)

My POV: It's a shame that, despite the organization's guidelines, despite the worthiness of an individual candidate, some people will not vote for a white person because of the color of their skin, and/or the pre-assumption of the person's values and dedication based on the color of their skin.

And, as someone else mentioned, even if Member X is only one vote, a chapter full of members with the same rule means that the majority will keep out white members out of hand.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

I'm from a smaller school in Oklahoma so I am not familiar with the "D9". Could you explain what that is?

www.nphchq.org

Also, get the books "The Divine Nine" by Lawrence Ross, Jr. (a former GC poster, btw), and "Black Greek 101" by Walter Kimbrough. Very informative books and are available via amazon.com or at your local bookstore.

[Laak 315]

thanks

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

Wow ... this is so far off topic of the OP ... sorry, everyone!

hahaha! Yes, but it has been very informative. It's been nice to follow the dialogue and see it actually progress and read different viewpoints on the subject.

[Laak 315]

I've learned more in this thread than I could have learned in a semester in college...actually that's not true, but it's still been helpful...

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Um, no. I'm not admonishing anyone. Disagreeing? Yes. Commenting? Yes. Acting like I choose who joins your org? No. The organizations welcome membership from all races. I personally have a problem with people who don't.


No, and yeah, I totally understand that. Thus my assumption that the average white interest would be just as dedicated as a black one.



Yes, I understand that and nothing I've said contradicts that.


Except I'm not. I'm saying tsk tsk individual members, that's biased and disappointing in today's society particularly when it goes against the values of your organization. If you're not one of those members, you're not getting "tsked." (And frankly, I'm not really "tsk"ing either.) I commented on a post, I'm not taking on the system. My opinion only matters as much as you want it to as I'm not a member of the D9 and thus can only speak as a fellow Greek.

Hell, I've rather enjoyed this discussion except for the part where I have to keep explaining that I'm aware it's only "one" vote and that the D9 as a whole is open to non-black members. Also, yes, we recruit members differently. Yes the D9 has a specific background. And yes, it is a private organization that can choose its members how it likes. There, I really hope I don't have to type any of those again, because I feel like a Myspace page that someone keeps refreshing. ("Broken Record" is so old fashioned.)

My POV: It's a shame that, despite the organization's guidelines, despite the worthiness of an individual candidate, some people will not vote for a white person because of the color of their skin, and/or the pre-assumption of the person's values and dedication based on the color of their skin.

And, as someone else mentioned, even if Member X is only one vote, a chapter full of members with the same rule means that the majority will keep out white members out of hand.

Drolefille, while you are absolutely right on all counts, and that such a mentality IMHO is still misguided, in the grand scheme of things, one can only hope that the voting majority does not share such viewpoints as you have indicated could happen.

[Laak 315]

lol, Drolefille, your views are falling upon deaf ears...I already tried explaining...

[IncontRHOllable]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

Fair enough, fair enough...this could go on for awhile without getting anywhere so it's best we end it now. Nobody answered my question about a double-standard and it doesn't look like anyone will. That's fine. I have no problem with that. Maybe the question is un-answerable. You're not going to change my opinion on the matter and I'm not going to change how your organizations look at certain people and accept or reject certain people for whatever reasons. No big deal. That's what makes organizations different. If we were all the same, we'd all have the same letters on our chest and college campuses would be boring places as it pertains to greek affairs. Reds, you're right...we should be able to accept and reject whoever we want for whatever reason without facing penalties. Unfortunately certain groups can't do that without legal action being taken against them. I guess that's just a burden we have to carry. No matter though. If organizations are happy with how they look at certain people and how they treat certain people, more power to them. That's their choice and their right.

Laak 315,It is an assumption at best to say that the same penalties that would apply to a PWGLO would not apply to PMGLO's. For example, some HBCU's have in the past (early 90's) been sued and were "persuaded" to admit caucasian students. To make an assumption is just that, an assumption. As was stated throughout this discussion, many of our orgs have caucasian members including my sorority. I don't recall any D9 member stating that our orgs deny membership to persons based on race. I do recall one person stating the she would not vote for a non-white and she is entitled to her opinion. However, she has stated that her opinion is hers alone and DOES NOT reflect the opinions of her entire sorority as is obvious in the caucasian members that they have. The same argument can be made for NIC, NPC, IFC etc that although they may have one person that won't vote for a minority person for whatever reason, that opinion DOES NOT reflect the views of the entire organization.
That being said, my opinion is that I think it only logical and natural to question a caucasian persons interest initially, because our organizations are philanthropic in nature and cater to the needs of our communities. After investigating that persons interest in my sorority and granting the person membership, I think it unnecessary to continuously question their commitment when the level of committment can be seen by the amount of work they are putting into the sorority and if they are financial or not.

[Laak 315]

That's what I was saying. There's nothing wrong with questioning why a person wishes to join your organization...I have a problem with groups who automatically deny membership to someone simply because they "wouldn't fit in" in regards to race, religion, status, etc...To continue questioning them even after they have joined (after you have allowed them to join) seems even worse to me. But I have no problem with group questioning a person's reasonining behind wanting to join a group that doesn't necessarily seem to "fit them socially".

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

That's what I was saying. There's nothing wrong with questioning why a person wishes to join your organization...I have a problem with groups who automatically deny membership to someone simply because they "wouldn't fit in" in regards to race, religion, status, etc...To continue questioning them even after they have joined (after you have allowed them to join) seems even worse to me. But I have no problem with group questioning a person's reasonining behind wanting to join a group that doesn't necessarily seem to "fit them socially".

I don't think it was stated that we would continue to question white members. In fact I said several times that I would not disrespect any white member of my organization.

[Laak 315]

But would it be fair to say that you would question Asian people or Indian people or Middle-Eastern people the same way?

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

But would it be fair to say that you would question Asian people or Indian people or Middle-Eastern people the same way?

Initially yes. Again I would wonder why they were interested in joining A BGLO (BLACK greek lettered organization). But if they were accepted I would not disrepect them.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I was fortunate enough to take a class on African-American Psychology. Big eye-opener to me. When I talked about it to other friends they were like... "and how is that different from everyone else's psychology?" Got me really looking at how everything from psychological theories to every day assumptions are based on white males and studies using white male college students. (Although due to the number of females in psychology who are often required to participate in studies, that's changing a bit)

Which is a HUGE critique that feminist scholars and race scholars have been making for years.

Folks are correct in that "African American psychology" isn't inherently different than everyone else's. But what your class was about was probably more "social psychology" which delves into how our surroundings influence us cognitively, cultural expectations, and meanings. And how the cognitive, expectations, and meanings impacts our surroundings.