White men in NPHC

[Laak 315]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

First to whom are you refering to?

Second, your purview of what you think is happening on your campus is not the world's view. So basically, we have yet to care what you think or your opinions.

And just because you say it does not make it so. Are you trying to us Black folks "tsk, tsk about our organizations we were forced to form because we were not allowed to join 100 years ago"? Or to put it bluntly, are you saying Black people who are United States citizens do not have the freedom to associate with whomever they wish?

I could care less what NIC or NPC organizations do for I am concerned about my own Sorority. But to invalidate my Sorority on the eve of my Centennial--well that is foul of you.

As such, you need to PM me and we can deal with your issues offline, no sense in making personal attacks that are not germaine to this discussion.

I think it's both hilarious and yet distasteful at the same time that you automatically think I am talking about black fraternities and sororities. That's quite racist of you to do so if you ask me, since you don't know what race(s) I was talking about. (It was not an African-American fraternity or sorority I was talking about btw.) Nowhere in my post did I address the organizations as "black" or "African-American". I addressed them as "races other than caucasian", so you are very clearly putting words in my mouth, which shows a lack of taste and class. As for you not caring about my "view on what is happening on my campus", you very obviously do care, otherwise you wouldn't have responded to my posting and started attacking it and me personally. As for "black people who are United States citizens not having the freedom to associate with whomever they chose", I would like to thank you for validating my point exactly. They do indeed have that right because it is easier for organizations of another race (notice again, I did not state "African-American") other than caucasian to exclude membership to caucasians than it is for a predominantly caucasian organization to exclude membership to "non-caucasians." How many times have I already stated this in this thread? I never invalidated your sorority...once again you are putting words in my mouth that clearly haven't been spoken, which is also distasteful. I am starting to believe you are just trying to get a rise out of me. Unfortunately for you, I know how to hold a civilized debate so that will not happen. I asked a simple question which to the best of my knowledge, STILL has not been answered. If you don't remember the question, it regards the double-standard. You seem to have some serious defense issues since you keep stating that I am making personal attacks on you when I am clearly not. I am making attacks on organizations that are clearly racist for not accepting people of other races into their fraternity/sorority just because they "wouldn't fit in because of their race." (This includes predominantly caucasian organizations, predominantly black organizations, predominantly indian organizations, predominantly asian organizations, etc...) As for you stating that what is happening on my campus is not happening on other campuses, that may be true. (It's not since I know two larger universities in my state that have similar problems) But, because it is happening on MY campus, I have a right to speak up and let people know that it IS happening. "So basically, we have yet to care what you think or your opinions." You don't have to care what I think. You don't have to change how your organization recruits or accepts new members. But it's precisely this attitude that makes your organization come across as racist. If that's fine by you then that's fine by me and we'll have no problems. Unfortunately, if my fraternity had this attitude/viewpoint, we'd be sued and/or kicked off campus. I guess that's the difference between our organizations.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

That's quite racist of you to do so if you ask me, since you don't know what race(s) I was talking about.

she's being racist from her post? are you serious? do you even know what that term means?

i think you're trying to hard to call someone racist, classless, tacky ect.

[Laak 315]

Originally Posted by starang21

she's being racist from her post? are you serious? do you even know what that term means?

i think you're trying to hard to call someone racist, classless, tacky ect.

To automatically assume that I was talking about black organizations simply because I am white is stereotyping, which indeed, is racist.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

To automatically assume that I was talking about black organizations simply because I am white is stereotyping, which indeed, is racist.

how do you know it's because you were white? or is this one of those mythological conclusions that people somehow come to?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

I think it's both hilarious and yet distasteful at the same time that you automatically think I am talking about black fraternities and sororities. That's quite racist of you to do so if you ask me, since you don't know what race(s) I was talking about. (It was not an African-American fraternity or sorority I was talking about btw.) Nowhere in my post did I address the organizations as "black" or "African-American". I addressed them as "races other than caucasian", so you are very clearly putting words in my mouth, which shows a lack of taste and class. As for you not caring about my "view on what is happening on my campus", you very obviously do care, otherwise you wouldn't have responded to my posting and started attacking it and me personally. As for "black people who are United States citizens not having the freedom to associate with whomever they chose", I would like to thank you for validating my point exactly. They do indeed have that right because it is easier for organizations of another race (notice again, I did not state "African-American") other than caucasian to exclude membership to caucasians than it is for a predominantly caucasian organization to exclude membership to "non-caucasians." How many times have I already stated this in this thread? I never invalidated your sorority...once again you are putting words in my mouth that clearly haven't been spoken, which is also distasteful. I am starting to believe you are just trying to get a rise out of me. Unfortunately for you, I know how to hold a civilized debate so that will not happen. I asked a simple question which to the best of my knowledge, STILL has not been answered. If you don't remember the question, it regards the double-standard. You seem to have some serious defense issues since you keep stating that I am making personal attacks on you when I am clearly not. I am making attacks on organizations that are clearly racist for not accepting people of other races into their fraternity/sorority just because they "wouldn't fit in because of their race." (This includes predominantly caucasian organizations, predominantly black organizations, predominantly indian organizations, predominantly asian organizations, etc...) As for you stating that what is happening on my campus is not happening on other campuses, that may be true. (It's not since I know two larger universities in my state that have similar problems) But, because it is happening on MY campus, I have a right to speak up and let people know that it IS happening. "So basically, we have yet to care what you think or your opinions." You don't have to care what I think. You don't have to change how your organization recruits or accepts new members. But it's precisely this attitude that makes your organization come across as racist. If that's fine by you then that's fine by me and we'll have no problems. Unfortunately, if my fraternity had this attitude/viewpoint, we'd be sued and/or kicked off campus. I guess that's the difference between our organizations.

Please Private Message me if you have any personal issues with me. I tire of skirting personal frivolous discussions such as these issues on a public on line message board.

[Laak 315]

Fair enough, fair enough...this could go on for awhile without getting anywhere so it's best we end it now. Nobody answered my question about a double-standard and it doesn't look like anyone will. That's fine. I have no problem with that. Maybe the question is un-answerable. You're not going to change my opinion on the matter and I'm not going to change how your organizations look at certain people and accept or reject certain people for whatever reasons. No big deal. That's what makes organizations different. If we were all the same, we'd all have the same letters on our chest and college campuses would be boring places as it pertains to greek affairs. Reds, you're right...we should be able to accept and reject whoever we want for whatever reason without facing penalties. Unfortunately certain groups can't do that without legal action being taken against them. I guess that's just a burden we have to carry. No matter though. If organizations are happy with how they look at certain people and how they treat certain people, more power to them. That's their choice and their right.

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

Fair enough, fair enough...this could go on for awhile without getting anywhere so it's best we end it now. Nobody answered my question about a double-standard and it doesn't look like anyone will. That's fine. I have no problem with that. Maybe the question is un-answerable. You're not going to change my opinion on the matter and I'm not going to change how your organizations look at certain people and accept or reject certain people for whatever reasons. No big deal. That's what makes organizations different. If we were all the same, we'd all have the same letters on our chest and college campuses would be boring places as it pertains to greek affairs. Reds, you're right...we should be able to accept and reject whoever we want for whatever reason without facing penalties. Unfortunately certain groups can't do that without legal action being taken against them. I guess that's just a burden we have to carry. No matter though. If organizations are happy with how they look at certain people and how they treat certain people, more power to them. That's their choice and their right.

Let's be clear my organization ACCEPTS all women of different backgrounds. I said I wouldn't necessarily vote for a white member, which is one vote. My vote can't deny membership to any young woman, white or black. And if you re-read many of the previous post you were given reasons. I also don't believe in double standards so if a white person voted no for a person of color, I would respect their choice.

[Laak 315]

You say that your vote can't deny membership, but in a way it can if the majority of your chapter votes the same way for the same reasons..."double-standard" is open to interpretation but I view a double-standard as a certain group getting in trouble for rejecting a person for whatever reason while another group doesn't get in trouble for the exact same thing...

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

You say that your vote can't deny membership, but in a way it can if the majority of your chapter votes the same way for the same reasons..."double-standard" is open to interpretation but I view a double-standard as a certain group getting in trouble for rejecting a person for whatever reason while another group doesn't get in trouble for the exact same thing...

Again the organization doesn't reject members based on skin color, which would account for the number of white members in our organizations. It's hard for a non-BGLO member to comprehend because our purpose and origination are very different. Also if I meet a white Soror I wouldn't treat her differently than I would a member of color. I would however wonder why she made the choice she did.

[Laak 315]

Originally Posted by Reds6

Again the organization doesn't reject members based on skin color, which would account for the number of white members in our organizations. It's hard for a non-BGLO member to comprehend because our purpose and origination are very different. Also if I meet a white Soror I wouldn't treat her differently than I would a member of color. I would however wonder why she made the choice she did.

understandable...

so there's no dues or anything of the sort with BGLOs?

[blackngoldengrl]

Originally Posted by Reds6

Again the organization doesn't reject members based on skin color, which would account for the number of white members in our organizations. It's hard for a non-BGLO member to comprehend because our purpose and origination are very different. Also if I meet a white Soror I wouldn't treat her differently than I would a member of color. I would however wonder why she made the choice she did.

My question to the group is: if a person is your sister/brother, shouldn't you already KNOW?

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

You say that your vote can't deny membership, but in a way it can if the majority of your chapter votes the same way for the same reasons..."double-standard" is open to interpretation but I view a double-standard as a certain group getting in trouble for rejecting a person for whatever reason while another group doesn't get in trouble for the exact same thing...

I agree wholeheartedly with this. A no vote based solely on skin color, irrespective of the assets and talents s/he can bring into the org is IMHO simply wrong, no matter what race(s) are involved.

[Laak 315]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

I agree wholeheartedly with this. A no vote based solely on skin color, irrespective of the assets and talents s/he can bring into the org is IMHO simply wrong, no matter what race(s) are involved.

it seems like a fine line, but I understand where Reds is coming from.

[IncontRHOllable]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

Fair enough, fair enough...this could go on for awhile without getting anywhere so it's best we end it now. Nobody answered my question about a double-standard and it doesn't look like anyone will. That's fine. I have no problem with that. Maybe the question is un-answerable. You're not going to change my opinion on the matter and I'm not going to change how your organizations look at certain people and accept or reject certain people for whatever reasons. No big deal. That's what makes organizations different. If we were all the same, we'd all have the same letters on our chest and college campuses would be boring places as it pertains to greek affairs. Reds, you're right...we should be able to accept and reject whoever we want for whatever reason without facing penalties. Unfortunately certain groups can't do that without legal action being taken against them. I guess that's just a burden we have to carry. No matter though. If organizations are happy with how they look at certain people and how they treat certain people, more power to them. That's their choice and their right.

Laak 315,It is an assumption at best to say that the same penalties that would apply to a PWGLO would not apply to PMGLO's. For example, some HBCU's have in the past (early 90's) been sued and were "persuaded" to admit caucasian students. To make an assumption is just that, an assumption. As was stated throughout this discussion, many of our orgs have caucasian members including my sorority. I don't recall any D9 member stating that our orgs deny membership to persons based on race. I do recall one person stating the she would not vote for a non-white and she is entitled to her opinion. However, she has stated that her opinion is hers alone and DOES NOT reflect the opinions of her entire sorority as is obvious in the caucasian members that they have. The same argument can be made for NIC, NPC, IFC etc that although they may have one person that won't vote for a minority person for whatever reason, that opinion DOES NOT reflect the views of the entire organization.
That being said, my opinion is that I think it only logical and natural to question a caucasian persons interest initially, because our organizations are philanthropic in nature and cater to the needs of our communities. After investigating that persons interest in my sorority and granting the person membership, I think it unnecessary to continuously question their commitment when the level of committment can be seen by the amount of work they are putting into the sorority and if they are financial or not.

[Laak 315]

That's what I was saying. There's nothing wrong with questioning why a person wishes to join your organization...I have a problem with groups who automatically deny membership to someone simply because they "wouldn't fit in" in regards to race, religion, status, etc...To continue questioning them even after they have joined (after you have allowed them to join) seems even worse to me. But I have no problem with group questioning a person's reasonining behind wanting to join a group that doesn't necessarily seem to "fit them socially".