Rider Student Dies After Fraternity Drinking Binge

[Laak 315]

I think this is probably going to keep going back and forth. I understand your argument and it makes sense. Hopefully you understand mine. You are saying that guys in my fraternity should have called 911 because of the condition I was in. However, are you suggesting that anyone who has so little as one shot of alcohol in the course of one night should have 911 called on them to make sure they are alright? At what point does a person need to intervene? It's open to interpretation. If I saw a person who I was with the whole night who had one shot and that was all and seemed to me to be perfectly fine, I'm not going to call 911. Maybe I'm a bad person for not doing so. I don't know anyone who would and I doubt you do either. However, couldn't it be possible that a person might have some sort of a reaction to one shot of alcohol later on? Could it be possible that one shot of alcohol could trigger something in the brain and hurt that person later? Yes, it's certainly possible, since anything is possible in this world. I admit there is a fine line regarding knowing whether a person is alright or not as it pertains to alcohol. I just hope people use their best judgement. Can you honestly say that throughout your entire college career, you've called 911 on every single person you have seen passed out at a party? If you can, my hat is off to you, but if so, I think you might be a little too paranoid. I feel as though I have used my best judgment in assessing whether a person needs to be taken to the hospital in regards to mis-use of alcohol. Again, I don't buy the argument that fraternity brothers are to blame for a single member over-drinking, if it was that single member's choice. If I don't know my own limits, that's my fault, not anyone else's. They're my brothers, but they shouldn't have to take the wrap for something stupid I did...

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

I think this is probably going to keep going back and forth. I understand your argument and it makes sense. Hopefully you understand mine. You are saying that guys in my fraternity should have called 911 because of the condition I was in. However, are you suggesting that anyone who has so little as one shot of alcohol in the course of one night should have 911 called on them to make sure they are alright? At what point does a person need to intervene? It's open to interpretation. If I saw a person who I was with the whole night who had one shot and that was all and seemed to me to be perfectly fine, I'm not going to call 911. Maybe I'm a bad person for not doing so. I don't know anyone who would and I doubt you do either. However, couldn't it be possible that a person might have some sort of a reaction to one shot of alcohol later on? Could it be possible that one shot of alcohol could trigger something in the brain and hurt that person later? Yes, it's certainly possible, since anything is possible in this world. I admit there is a fine line regarding knowing whether a person is alright or not as it pertains to alcohol. I just hope people use their best judgment. Can you honestly say that throughout your entire college career, you've called 911 on every single person you have seen passed out at a party? If you can, my hat is off to you, but if so, I think you might be a little too paranoid. I feel as though I have used my best judgment in assessing whether a person needs to be taken to the hospital in regards to mis-use of alcohol. Again, I don't buy the argument that fraternity brothers are to blame for a single member over-drinking, if it was that single member's choice. If I don't know my own limits, that's my fault, not anyone else's. They're my brothers, but they shouldn't have to take the wrap for something stupid I did...

While I never said anything about one shot it is an interesting point as I do know some one who is allergic to alcohol. They had some punch at a party that was "spiked" and had a rather bad reaction; much like yours if not much worse as they were found pale as a ghost and just about unconscious. All because of one drink or sip of one drink.
His friends called 911 and he lived.

So it is not the amount, it is the result or reaction to it.

Nor is it truly a matter of just over-drinking, it is how to handle the results and consequences


And just judging from what you have written, while you may have learned something, you are still in a state of denial.

[Laak 315]

eh...I lived and I learned...not sure what I'd be in denial about since I fully accept the fact that I could have died...

[Tom Earp]

And You could have died!

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Laak 315

eh...I lived and I learned...not sure what I'd be in denial about since I fully accept the fact that I could have died...

I do understand that, all too well as you and I share something.
What I am getting at is the Risk Management element of this.
Judging solely on what you have written here, my perception is that
there maybe some RM lessons to be learned still.

[Laak 315]

I certainly feel that all chapters of all organizations could definitely use more information/training in regards to Risk Management and how to handle certain situtations that are sure to happen at least once on college campuses...

[madmax]

Another Rider student died this week. Heroin od.

Is exlurker on vacation?

[exlurker]

Update: Parents' Lawsuit

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wi...,2938898.story

Brief excerpts from the Associated Press article:

"Greek organizations present unique dangers, real dangers, to students on campus. And Rider specifically chose to manage them with less supervision and to give them control over their own activities despite the risk," said . . . [the] lawyer representing the DeVercellys.

A Rider spokesman could not immediately comment on the lawsuit.

Steve Hartman, the national chief executive of Phi Kappa Tau, declined to comment directly about the lawsuit, but said the fraternity has proper policies and procedures in place for its chapters.

"But I do believe that if things weren't clear in our organization and in fraternities in general, I think this situation has raised the bar that this does and can happen," Hartman said.

The lawsuit claims fraternity members urged DeVercelly to drink a bottle of vodka, and then delayed seeking medical attention for DeVercelly when he became ill, even banging the freshman's head on a trash can while trying to get him to vomit. By the time a call was made for emergency medical help, DeVercelly had turned blue and was foaming at the mouth, the suit states.

DeVercelly died the next day at a local hospital. . . .

Interesting assertion by the parents' lawyer about "unique dangers, real dangers" and "less supervision."