Imus Still in Hot Water

[33girl]

My question is - in what context did he say this? All I've heard was the phrase "nappy headed hoes" and nothing that surrounded it. I don't think it's excusable or anything, it just seems like such a random thing to say.

(Don't point me to a sound file, I've got no speakers thanks.)

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by 33girl

My question is - in what context did he say this? All I've heard was the phrase "nappy headed hoes" and nothing that surrounded it. I don't think it's excusable or anything, it just seems like such a random thing to say.

(Don't point me to a sound file, I've got no speakers thanks.)

They (him and Sid Rosenberg) were talking about the Tennessee vs. Rutgers women's basketball Final.

Imus: That's some rough girls from Rutgers...man....they got tattoos and....
Rosenberg:....some hardcore hoes....
Imus...haha...some nappy headed hoes there, haha, i'm tellin' ya......and uhhh....the girls from Tennessee....they all looked cute ya know?

Then they talked about how it was a Spike Lee type thing, the Jigaboos vs. the Wannabees. I think he was referencing Do The Right Thing. Then Rosenberg said that the women looked more like the Toronto Raptors or something like that.

[Exquisite5]

He was actually referencing School Days in which Spike Lee ripped the veil off colorism (and many other issues) in the black community. The referenced scene in particular shows the "fight" (I use the term loosely because its a dance number set to music) between the dark skinned ladies with naturally kinky, coily (read nappy) hair and the lighter ladies
(many of who were of mixed race) with chemically relaxed or naturally straight hair. The "Jigaboos" were arguably considered to be "ugly" and the lighter skinned women were "pretty," but called "Wannabees" as an insult, because they arguably "wanted to be white."

The Spike Lee/Wannabee/Jiggaboo commentary between Imus and the producer which followed the "hard core hoes [and] nappy headed hoes" comments essentially underscored that the duo's previous statements that the Tennessee team (which had more white women) were pretty and dainty, while the Rutgers team (predominately black) were unattractive, "hard core," Jiggaboos.

ETA insert "nappy" and make plain the hair difference and why, although many AfAms don't find the word "nappy" on its face to be negative (this one included), its not a far stretch to argue that it can be so made negative when used in a demeaning way because it has been before.

Originally Posted by macallan25

They (him and Sid Rosenberg) were talking about the Tennessee vs. Rutgers women's basketball Final.

Imus: That's some rough girls from Rutgers...man....they got tattoos and....
Rosenberg:....some hardcore hoes....
Imus...haha...some nappy headed hoes there, haha, i'm tellin' ya......and uhhh....the girls from Tennessee....they all looked cute ya know?

Then they talked about how it was a Spike Lee type thing, the Jigaboos vs. the Wannabees. I think he was referencing Do The Right Thing. Then Rosenberg said that the women looked more like the Toronto Raptors or something like that.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Exquisite5

The Spike Lee/Wannabee/Jiggaboo commentary between Imus and the producer which followed the "hard core hoes [and] nappy headed hoes" comments essentially underscored that the duo's previous statements that the Tennessee team (which had more white women) were pretty and dainty, while the Rutgers team (predominately black) were unattractive, "hard core," Jiggaboos.

That assertion is a load of complete crap. Absolutely ridiculous. Tennessee had 3 white girls on their 11 woman roster....one of which started. The others barely played. Rutgers has two white girls on their 10 woman roster.......one of which also started.

http://utladyvols.cstv.com/sports/w-...askbl-mtt.html
http://scarletknights.com/basketball...oster-alph.asp

Don't turn this into some "He said good things about Tennesse because they were mainly white" bullshit.

[Exquisite5]

Wasn't turning it into that at all. Tennessee won the game after all- they, as well as Rutgers in my opinion (just for getting there), deserved to have good things said about them, be they white or black.

Now as the post immediately prior to your post demonstrates, colorism was at play.

None of the women deserved to be called hoes; nappy, hard-core or otherwise (unless of course they knew something about these ladies' prostitution habits that I don't). That is actually my bigger issue with all of this. I honestly, don't believe Imus even truly knew what "nappy-headed" meant- I think he heard it somewhere (maybe on BET which I've boycotted for years) and like a 3 yr old kid repeated it. Because why would anyone with the hair Imus has knowingly and purposefully talk about another's?

Originally Posted by macallan25

That assertion is a load of complete crap. Absolutely ridiculous. Tennessee had 3 white girls on their 11 woman roster....one of which started. The others barely played. Rutgers has two white girls on their 10 woman roster.......one of which also started.

http://utladyvols.cstv.com/sports/w-...askbl-mtt.html
http://scarletknights.com/basketball...oster-alph.asp

Don't turn this into some "He said good things about Tennesse because they were mainly white" bullshit.

[divainred]

Originally Posted by macallan25

They (him and Sid Rosenberg) were talking about the Tennessee vs. Rutgers women's basketball Final.

Imus: That's some rough girls from Rutgers...man....they got tattoos and....
Rosenberg:....some hardcore hoes....
Imus...haha...some nappy headed hoes there, haha, i'm tellin' ya......and uhhh....the girls from Tennessee....they all looked cute ya know?

Then they talked about how it was a Spike Lee type thing, the Jigaboos vs. the Wannabees. I think he was referencing Do The Right Thing. Then Rosenberg said that the women looked more like the Toronto Raptors or something like that.

This is not racial in terms of "black vs. white", it was more in reference of skin complexions/tones. As macallan25 said, Imus and his producers continued on with the commentary further and made the distinction between good-looking woman being "light-skinned" vs. "darker skinned". Specifically the center from Tennessee is a light-skinned af.-american, which also goes back to the "jigaboos vs. wannabees" (from School Daze, which was about prejudice based upon skin complexions) and his producer did reply "do the right thing" afterwards. So essentially, the lighter you are, the cuter. It is not simply because someone was called nappy-headed that there are racial undertones. Unfortunately, most of this has been portrayed as being restricted to the "nappy-headed hoes" comment.

I have a problem with the entire conversation and how it was conducted because this simply began as commenting that the women from Tennessee beat the women from Rutgers in the NCAA finals the previous evening. I do not understand how it was necessary in discussing the game to bring up appearances and to call them "hoes" and make any comments about race. None of those comments have anything to do with it being a good game between two teams and one beating the other.

Unfortunately, Don Imus does have an extremely large following, he has a morning show that is not only on tv and a huge network (MSNBC) that people do give credence as a fact-worthy news source, it is also on radio. Majority of presidential candidates feel that it is important to go to his talk show as one of the main stopping places when running for office. Therefore, this is not a man who no one knew of until he made this little comment that was blown out-of-control and now will receive more publicity than ever. He is viewed by many as a credible newscaster.

I do want him to be fired, because I believe that when you are in certain positions, you have a certain level of accountability. I have problems with Al Sharpton and what he does and says, does he have a national radio show being broadcasted simultaneously on radio and one of the 3 major cable news stations? No, and if he did and was allowed to say prejudicial/racist/sexist things, would I feel he should be fired? Absolutely!

Also, the other reason, I believe that Imus should be fired is that he never apologized, he simply excused the fact that this is a different time period where certain comments are not allowed and if this were a different day and time, it would be different.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by divainred

I have problems with Al Sharpton and what he does and says, does he have a national radio show being broadcasted simultaneously on radio and one of the 3 major cable news stations? No,

Actually, Sharpton does have a national radio show - it's a daily show, in syndication.

Just an FYI, I don't think it changes anything in your post.

[divainred]

No, I know, but I meant that his radio show isn't on both there (the radio waves) and CNN, MSNBC, etc. Radio truly allows for free speech because it can be solely based upon one's opinion, whether you agree or not. Sorry for not being clear enough.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by macallan25

They (him and Sid Rosenberg) were talking about the Tennessee vs. Rutgers women's basketball Final.

Imus: That's some rough girls from Rutgers...man....they got tattoos and....
Rosenberg:....some hardcore hoes....
Imus...haha...some nappy headed hoes there, haha, i'm tellin' ya......and uhhh....the girls from Tennessee....they all looked cute ya know?

Then they talked about how it was a Spike Lee type thing, the Jigaboos vs. the Wannabees. I think he was referencing Do The Right Thing. Then Rosenberg said that the women looked more like the Toronto Raptors or something like that.

According to the transcript I read, it wasn't Rosenberg. This was posted on the first page of this thread:

Originally Posted by delph998

IMUS: That’s some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and—

McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That’s some nappy-headed hos there. I’m gonna tell you that now, man, that’s some—woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like—kinda like—I don’t know.

McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

IMUS: Yeah.

McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes—that movie that he had.

MSNBC has pulled his simulcast from their TV network since the advertisers are pulling out.

I agree that what he said was rude and out of line, but I've heard worse from others. I did think to myself, when I heard that GM had pulled their advertising from his show, that I am pretty sure that GM advertises on the rap stations in Detroit who play the songs that are just as offensive. I do see that as a double standard.

I think all the media attention makes it worse. I also just read that a Pennsylvania DJ was fired this morning for having a contest that involved people calling in and saying "I'm a nappy headed ho". I've not been a fan of shock jocks for a long time, so it wouldn't bother me a bit if they all got fired, but I've definitely heard Howard Stern say worse things and NOT get fired.

Imus will probably end up on Sirius now...

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AGDee

According to the transcript I read, it wasn't Rosenberg. This was posted on the first page of this thread:



MSNBC has pulled his simulcast from their TV network since the advertisers are pulling out.

I agree that what he said was rude and out of line, but I've heard worse from others. I did think to myself, when I heard that GM had pulled their advertising from his show, that I am pretty sure that GM advertises on the rap stations in Detroit who play the songs that are just as offensive. I do see that as a double standard.

I think all the media attention makes it worse. I also just read that a Pennsylvania DJ was fired this morning for having a contest that involved people calling in and saying "I'm a nappy headed ho". I've not been a fan of shock jocks for a long time, so it wouldn't bother me a bit if they all got fired, but I've definitely heard Howard Stern say worse things and NOT get fired.

Imus will probably end up on Sirius now...

My mistake......I just watched the clip on youtube and the call in gues was Rosenberg.....I just figured it was him.

[jon1856]

Some interesting POV's from around the Nation's Op-Ed sections:
http://cagle.com/news/ImusBigMouth/
http://cagle.com/news/ImusBigMouth/


Lastest News links:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/0...ers/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265441,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17999196/

[Conskeeted7]

I personally don't believe that many, if any at all, white adults can honestly say they do not know the difference between an offensive comment and one that is not. I think it's a total cop-out for any adults to say they should be allowed to use offensive language just because others may say it.

I believe that white people who use offensive language and then use rap/black people as a reason for it are just making excuses. Don't worry about why black people/females use that language. Just know that you can't. Leave that other issue for the black people to deal with. Since when did white people become so concerned with the language that blacks use toward each other?

This 'double standard' talk is pure nonsense to me.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Conskeeted7

I believe that white people who use offensive language and then use rap/black people as a reason for it are just making excuses.

Music industry people are not used as an excuse, just an illustration of the double standard.

Don't worry about why black people/females use that language. Just know that you can't.

I never thought I'd see such a great demonstration of the double standard. BS. Either condemn all of it or none of it. If the language is that offensive, it should be offensive when uttered by anyone, regardless of the source.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Conskeeted7

Don't worry about why black people/females use that language. Just know that you can't. Leave that other issue for the black people to deal with.

Yeah, definitely - and while we're at it, we can leave poverty issues to the poor, hunger issues to the starving, etc. We're definitely not all in this together, when it comes to fighting off century-old stereotypes and embedded racial issues.

It's not so much that I want to be able to call black women "nappy hoes" - honestly, it should be readily apparent that I already can, should I so choose to deal with the consequences - and I couldn't care less about "double standard" issues, as I think it's a semiotic crutch for avoiding the conversation (for the most part).

However, framing the point like you did is just bizarre - it's almost insulting to any intelligent adult who actually wants to go beyond the surface of racial issues in America. To say "just know you can't" is akin to throwing your hands up and quitting, to my mind.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by AGDee

MSNBC has pulled his simulcast from their TV network since the advertisers are pulling out.

Imus will probably end up on Sirius now...

For what it's worth, Steve Capus, President of NBC News, claims that the decision to drop Imus was not based on revenue (loss of advertising), but rather to protect the reputation of NBC News.

That could be true.

We'll see what CBS, the owner of the Imus show, decides to do beyond a suspension.

Your comment about Sirius has a certain ring of probability.