Effects of the New Release Figures

[carnation]

Two years ago, I realized that legacy status was a definite problem when I saw a girl who would have been in demand anywhere else get cut from everywhere but 2 houses after first parties because she was an in-house legacy. Actually, she wanted to explore all the other groups but never got a chance. She had top grades, great activities, pretty, the whole thing, but everyone assumed she wanted her sister's group. She had a pretty lousy time during recruitment sitting in her room and waiting for everyone else to return from their 12 or so parties and go to her 2.

She pledged her sister's house and was okay with that but her mom says she will never forget the crummy time she had when she rushed.

[UGAalum94]

I always try to imagine this in terms of UGA, but it's hard to think of going from 18 to two if you have great grades, etc.

Don't some groups get to invite almost everyone back because their returns are lower? Wouldn't that mean that some groups would keep other groups' legacies too?

Well, in addition to discouraging girls from listing legacies on the rush application, maybe we should keep in mind the harm of listing legacies or rec. forms since we always want the girls we write recs for to have a great experience.

What are the highest percentages that "weaker" groups get to invite back?

[KSUViolet06]

The biggeest groups had to make substantial cuts of sometimes HALF or more of the women after first party. That was rough for recruitment in general because alot of women dropped out because they had their hearts set on being invited back there (not knowing the cuts the group had to make). Yes, they had to let go of substantial #'s of legacies too. That was rough too because girls are more likely to drop if they get cut by their legacy house.

Alphagamuga- The smallest group on our campus did not have to release anyone according to the figures. They released a few women anyway though I think.

[carnation]

I swear that when the rest of my daughters rush, we're leaving out the names of all the sororities they're legacies to. We'll make sure the legacy groups get several recs.

If they rush at Birmingham Southern, though, we might have to list the names of the legacy sororities for a laugh. I would really like to see the looks on the faces of the Panhellenic reps when they open the application and see that here's a girl who's a legacy to 4 of the 6 sororities, lol.

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

Just tell them that the more popular a group is, the more women they will have to cut - even if they're great women. I would compare it to college admissions. They've all been through that and know to have "safety" schools and not just apply to Harvard. If they did that, they would be sitting around at the end of their senior year with no clue where they're going or having to settle for a school they never thought they would end up at.

[Denise_DPhiE]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Just tell them that the more popular a group is, the more women they will have to cut - even if they're great women. I would compare it to college admissions. They've all been through that and know to have "safety" schools and not just apply to Harvard. If they did that, they would be sitting around at the end of their senior year with no clue where they're going or having to settle for a school they never thought they would end up at.

^^^^^^
What she said. Amen!!!!!

[alum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Just tell them that the more popular a group is, the more women they will have to cut - even if they're great women. I would compare it to college admissions. They've all been through that and know to have "safety" schools and not just apply to Harvard. If they did that, they would be sitting around at the end of their senior year with no clue where they're going or having to settle for a school they never thought they would end up at.

I agree with 33girl. All college applicants are told to have reaches, matches and safeties on their college lists. There are college admissions forums in which kids post their stats for their chances at various schools. Colleges have developed set formulae as to how they choose their students. Some schools focus on grades more than SATs. Some weight EC involvement more than other colleges. Of course the legacy/major donor factor comes into play for college admissions as well.

A difference is that adcoms for schools are composed of adults, not fellow students. We don't have alumnae choosing the new sisters, we have the actives themselves. Obviously adults and alums have more life experience than the collegians/actives and would perhaps look beyond a nervous PNM's poise and focus on her resume.

[FSUZeta]

33girl said it best. tell the pnms the facts. after all, that is all you can do.

if pnms then choose to think that they know more about it than you, and they drop all but the "top" groups and then in turn, get dropped by the top groups, you shouldn't feel that you let them down.

i see the new release figures(nfr) as a positive thing. the problem with the new release figures is that it works better in theory. the nrf was instituted to keep pnms in recruitiment and give the smaller chapters a better chance to grow.

the problem is there is a choice. we know that panhellenic is going to make sure that the chapters comply with the required drops. the chapters still get to choose which pnms they invite back, they are just inviting a smaller percentage than the other chapters. the majority of the pnms want them and most of their invitations will be accepted, so the nrf has little effect on the top chapters final results.

where this breaks down is with the pnms. some pnms just can't accept the fact that the top groups did not invite them back and they drop out. had they continued on with the invitations they did receive, they may have found a chapter where they could be happy. perhaps if they were required to stay in recruitment until "x" party or until they did not receive any invitations at all, the nrfs might truly work as was intended.

[alum]

Originally Posted by carnation

I swear that when the rest of my daughters rush, we're leaving out the names of all the sororities they're legacies to. We'll make sure the legacy groups get several recs.

Assuming that you recommend getting recs for ALL sororities on a campus, will you specifically ask the non-legacy rec writer NOT to list the affiliations on the rec form?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by carnation

.

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

I understand completely what you mean. It's tough to give tactful advice and it's hard to get even the nicest 18 year old to take it. I think you are right in what you are trying to direct them toward, but especially since the A1s are such good rushers, the PNMs are going to have a hard time accepting what you are saying until after they get cut.

[carnation]

Oh, I know, alphagamuga. You go to those parties and even if there's no way you're getting in, they'll make you feel like the number one woman on their bid list. Then when the invitations come back...

And a lot of those recruitment brochures don't mention that you might not get your first or even eighth choice. Or last. They say, "as a new member, you will get to do this or that" and it never occurs to PNMs that they might not pledge. And then there are those songs, sung even on the first day: "We want you for the red, yellow and blue" and that kind of thing. Each PNM is sure they're singing to her individually.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by carnation

And a lot of those recruitment brochures don't mention that you might not get your first or even eighth choice. Or last. They say, "as a new member, you will get to do this or that" and it never occurs to PNMs that they might not pledge.

The newest recruitment page at UGA tells women that recommendations are not required for any group* too. It's almost as if PNMs are sabotaged at every turn by the official advice. Sure, it is officially the responsibility of the group to get you one if the group needs it, but I don't think it's a good idea for the girls to count on that on a highly competitive campus.

I think starkly realistic information from all sources would help young women through the process more than the consistently optimistic stuff they get instead.

*Correction added 4/7: This in only in the FAQs section. The actual recruitment guide does in fact do a good job explaining the importance of recs. I want to retract my claims about the fine people in the UGA Greek Life Office.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by carnation

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

This is one way in which I was glad that I rushed as a freshman who had no clue about sororities in general (and certainly no clue about the specific reputations on my campus). After the first round of rush, I cut a couple of "name" chapters - my Rho Chis looked at me strangely when I reviewed my list with them, and one of them actually said "are you sure you want to do that?" (She ended up being my sister in a smaller chapter and said it was so unusual for someone to do what I did, that she just wanted to make sure I had filled out my card correctly. She didn't want me to come to them upset later about it.)

It worked out well for me though - the "name" chapters that I cut would likely have cut me after 2nd round anyhow, and I didn't pass up opportunities with other great chapters just to get strung along by a "name" chapter.

[XOMOM]

Both of my daughters did that, and I was the one who asked them that question. But things are very different now, than way back when i went through rush. Although they were direct legacies, I wanted them to make their own choices for themselves. They are so happy with their choice.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by carnation

Two years ago, I realized that legacy status was a definite problem when I saw a girl who would have been in demand anywhere else get cut from everywhere but 2 houses after first parties because she was an in-house legacy. Actually, she wanted to explore all the other groups but never got a chance. She had top grades, great activities, pretty, the whole thing, but everyone assumed she wanted her sister's group. She had a pretty lousy time during recruitment sitting in her room and waiting for everyone else to return from their 12 or so parties and go to her 2.

She pledged her sister's house and was okay with that but her mom says she will never forget the crummy time she had when she rushed.

That happened this year at one school, too, only it was a direct legacy, not in-house. Part of me understands that, with the Release figures, a chapter needs to make their best guess as to who would accept the invitations, yet the part of me who didn't go with her legacy chapter says, Give the PNM a chance to be her own person!

All that, and I think the Release Figures are wonderful!


Edited to avoid a double post:

Originally Posted by carnation

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

Actually, prior to even going to college, it was so highly stressed to me that the sororities select the PNM, not the other way around, that I naively thought that anyone who wasn't in a sorority or fraternity had tried to get a bid, but didn't succeed!