Delta Zeta Reportedly Sues DePauw

[UGAalum94]

I don't think have changed as much on campus as far as Greek life in the last 20 years as you might think, especially at a school like UGA. Of course I can’t speak for DePauw.

1987 may seem like the dark ages to you, but having lived then, I can assure you that many of the restrictions that we see in Greek life now were in full effect by the early 1990s, and it's likely would have been being implemented by 1987. I suspect there were some radical shifts in Greek life about the time that the drinking age was raised from 18 to 21 in 1984, but by 1987, the only areas that have probably been more regulated now than then are rules for new members and some groups adding sexual orientation to their non-discrimination clauses.

Kicking girls out of their housing mid-semester would never have played well, and I don’t think we can assume that it has happened in other re-organizations unless we have evidence that it did. It’s one of the most remarkably callous elements of the treatment of former members in this case.

I think that the new media that the former members had access to, maybe more than any other aspect, may have changed how the re-organization played out. Previously we would have been at the mercy of the traditional media alone for information on the story, and here, we had social network sites, GreekChat, the official university and GLO websites fanning the flames of public interest. The “officials” can’t spin as effectively as they used to, and GLOs are going to need to keep that in mind.

There’s one other aspect I think may contribute to conflicts like this, but I don’t think it falls under the idea of PC and it didn’t seem to be an aspect of the DePauw situation: college students today are more likely than ever, if you believe the media reports, to continue to run to Mom and Dad with their problems. I think this behavior, more than any Political Correctness, maybe what causes colleges to start thinking in terms of “protecting” members from their groups.

I want to emphasize something: DZ at UGA in 1987 was a true re-colonization; they were closed and re-opened. They’ve done very well and remain a strong chapter. I wanted to emphasize this because I didn’t want anyone to think they had some kind of history of unpleasant re-organizations.

[33girl]

I'm as old as you are, silly

I think we were just answering questions about reorgs & recolonizations in general. I agree that forcing people to leave housing w/out RM issues, at a small school where everyone knows what's happening, would never have gone over well.

Who knows how things would have gone if DZ had made everyone alum, gone along with the chapter's vote to self-close at the end of this school year and recolonized at DePauw in 2008-09, as seemed to be the original plan? Do you think it would have worked out?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I'm as old as you are, silly

I think we were just answering questions about reorgs & recolonizations in general. I agree that forcing people to leave housing w/out RM issues, at a small school where everyone knows what's happening, would never have gone over well.

Who knows how things would have gone if DZ had made everyone alum, gone along with the chapter's vote to self-close at the end of this school year and recolonized at DePauw in 2008-09, as seemed to be the original plan? Do you think it would have worked out?

I got the impression that maybe Texas*Princess thought we just cast people out into the darkness for gaining five pounds back in the olden days of 1987. Actually, Texas*Princess, I didn't think you meant any harm at all, but I did want to reassure you that the values weren't that different back then.

Here's the thing: I have my doubts about how almost immediate re-colonizations and re-organizations are ever going to work. Would a year be long enough that the reputation of the group would change that much?

That's why I'm interested to hear about re-organizations that "took." I want to hear about cases in which five or ten years down the road the group is still as strong as it was the day that IHQs did the re-organization recruitment.

[FuzzieAlum]

Alphagamuga, I'm with you as to having doubts. In the few cases I've seen, either the new group of women (or for that matter men) did not gain enough new members and closed before anyone was initiated, or they got barely enough members and were able to stay open but were no stronger than before.

Part of the problem is that, regardless of why they couldn't get members, regardless of how the new alums act, about 3/4 of the campus body remembers the old chapter and associates XYZ with that image.

[UGAalum94]

FuzzieAlum, that's what I was afraid of, but I didn't have any direct experience. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for AGD at Ohio State that they will continue their success.

33Girl, I do think that if DZ had been able to do things the way they planned, things would have gone more smoothly. I have the impression that when the group voted not to do rush, that's what they were accepting. But, DZ erred greatly in two ways: not knowing what the university would permit before they began dealing with the chapter, and not letting the girls themselves select who would remain active and who would go alum when they did finally realize that they wouldn't be permitted to close and re-open as they planned.

(Thank for the re-assurance about age, as well!)

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

IThat's why I'm interested to hear about re-organizations that "took." I want to hear about cases in which five or ten years down the road the group is still as strong as it was the day that IHQs did the re-organization recruitment.

See my previous post. It's only been 6-7 years, but I think if the chapter was going to fold again immediately it would've already done so.

[honeychile]

I'm only familiar enough with two recolonizations to talk about them, ADPi at Pitt and at PSU.

The one at Pitt started out great guns, but in such debt, it didn't turn around until the Sisters decided to become the masters of their own identity. The Sisters instigated tough rules, and those who didn't follow them were out the door. It took a few years, but they are now up for Alpha Delta Pi's most coveted award at this summer's convention.

At PSU, the recolonization was handled very well - the largest colony in Alpha Delta Pi history! From what I've heard, it had the same pattern. They, too, had a slight dip, but is now going from strength to strength.

I could name a few other sororities whose recolonizations went well, but it wouldn't be fair for me to do without intimate knowledge.

[Tom Earp]

I was led to beleive that ADPi did not go back to a closed Campus and if that is not true, I suggest My Alama Mater as would love to see them return!

While not the cookie cutters of beauty they were the most hard working and the nicest. Very envolved and when I started my local, they were the first to give us recognition as being a founded group on campus.

Soft spot is still there!

[UGAalum94]

It's good to know that some of the re-organizations do succeed!

I suppose some places it could be almost like being a new group.

[Symbal]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I'm only familiar enough with two recolonizations to talk about them, ADPi at Pitt and at PSU.

The one at Pitt started out great guns, but in such debt, it didn't turn around until the Sisters decided to become the masters of their own identity. The Sisters instigated tough rules, and those who didn't follow them were out the door. It took a few years, but they are now up for Alpha Delta Pi's most coveted award at this summer's convention.

At PSU, the recolonization was handled very well - the largest colony in Alpha Delta Pi history! From what I've heard, it had the same pattern. They, too, had a slight dip, but is now going from strength to strength.

I could name a few other sororities whose recolonizations went well, but it wouldn't be fair for me to do without intimate knowledge.

I went to grade school with an ADPi sister at Pitt.

[petals]

Originally Posted by honeychile

At PSU, the recolonization was handled very well - the largest colony in Alpha Delta Pi history! From what I've heard, it had the same pattern. They, too, had a slight dip, but is now going from strength to strength.

We actually just won the Chapter of Excellence award here, which is an honor that only a handful of the 20 chapters actually receive... so I'd say things are doing fairly well

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by petals

We actually just won the Chapter of Excellence award here, which is an honor that only a handful of the 20 chapters actually receive... so I'd say things are doing fairly well

I was counting on you to add your two cents! It's been a couple years since I've been to PSU.

[Glitter650]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

That's why I'm interested to hear about re-organizations that "took." I want to hear about cases in which five or ten years down the road the group is still as strong as it was the day that IHQs did the re-organization recruitment.

Not five or ten years yet.... but the Phi Sig chapter at Penn did a re-org with quick turn around..... and it seems to have worked out well so far from what I hear. We will see in the long run... I know 2005 was when they were first were all settled as a chapter and the new ladies had been initiated and they were winning awards at convention and had strong numbers. One of the sisters from that chapter actually posts here sometimes. How it works out in the long run is still to be determined however.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I got the impression that maybe Texas*Princess thought we just cast people out into the darkness for gaining five pounds back in the olden days of 1987. Actually, Texas*Princess, I didn't think you meant any harm at all, but I did want to reassure you that the values weren't that different back then.

No that's not what I thought at all.

Actually this has nothing to do with weight or anything like that. I was talking about the way the "re org" was handled. (Casting people off in the middle of the semester - regardless if they were a size 10 or a minority, or really just not that into recruitment)

NPC sororities (from what I've noticed) like to keep all their bases covered a lot more now than they might have in the past. Third-party vendors at formals, gotta do everything by the "book" to make sure there are no risk-management issues, can't drink in letters, etc. etc... all for the sake of protecting our good name.

Which is why something like this (kicking the women out of their housing in the middle of the semester and yet late enough in the semester to make it a pain in the rear to have to find an apartment. I don't know about you, but back in D-town, if you didn't know where you were living next Fall by the time March or April rolled around, you were screwed) was really surprising.

You'd think a sorority like DZ would have some better sense and the foresight to see the repercussions of their actions because everything sororities have done recently seems to be to prevent PR-disasters like the one at hand.

And I'm not really sure what you mean by "running to Mom & Dad" with their problems, because on my old campus, a large portion of people I knew had their own jobs, payed their own rent and were for the most part self-suffecient. If my sorority kicked me out a few weeks before my finals, of course my parents are going to hear about it... not because I'm trying to be a whiney (*&#$ but because that's some major crap to have to deal with at a very crappy time in the semester.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

And I'm not really sure what you mean by "running to Mom & Dad" with their problems, because on my old campus, a large portion of people I knew had their own jobs, payed their own rent and were for the most part self-sufficient. If my sorority kicked me out a few weeks before my finals, of course my parents are going to hear about it... not because I'm trying to be a whiney (*&#$ but because that's some major crap to have to deal with at a very crappy time in the semester.

Right, and I think the DZ housing situation was exceptionally bad. But I don't think it EVER would have been okay with a university, and that actually colleges probably used to be even more involved in student housing decisions than they are today.

( I don't think the last 20 years have changed things that much. If you went back even further, however, you might find a time when more schools guaranteed and supervised or expected supervision of student housing. If everyone has to be in the dorm at a certain hour and checked in with the dorm monitor, I think it would be unlikely that they'd be as cavalier as DZ was about the housing at DePauw, but we're talking more than 20 years ago to get to those days.)

I think increasing concerns about liability have changed a lot about the way we all live now and do our jobs. I'm not sure that it's worse for sororities because of concerns about being PC or looking bad, but maybe I'm wrong.

I think that it's possible that in the past a group might have gotten away with something like the DePauw incident a little easier than they did today, but I disagree about the reasons why.

About the moms and dads comment: it seems to me that in general a greater percentage of college kids rely on their parents for more and more help running their day to day lives. It may not be true for you or on your campus, and one of the things that surprised me about the DePauw deal was how the parents weren't part of the story at all. In any other story about problems with greek life: hazing, risk management, whatever, the moms and dads figure in. When you read about differences that college professors identify with students today versus students in the past, they mention parents calling to complain about grades. I regret mentioning it in the DePauw context, and I didn't mean it as an accusation about you or your school, but it's one of those comparing then and now things that's interesting to me.

ETA: I'm not casting any stones on the parents deal: I've always been someone to talk to my parents a lot. I don't mean getting them to intervene for me. But we're close, even today. There's nothing wrong with parents advising their offspring, but they shouldn't still be taking care of a lot of stuff for their kids if the kids are in college or beyond, and that seems to be what people complain about: parents calling advisers, greek life coordinators about bad rush results, HR directors at the first job, etc. I'm a little surprised that no angry mom or dads have surfaced in the reporting about DePauw if all the stories about "helicopter parents" going to college are true.

The parents thing is a weird and random digression and I apologize.