Delta Zeta Reportedly Sues DePauw

[UGAalum94]

I found the 20 year old example very helpful because I had been wondering if re-organizations ever work long terms.

I would expect any group to get a big boost by having a colonization type rush, but whether they could sustain that long term is a little different.

In the south, twenty years ago might be pretty recent activity. I think that it was about the same time ago that UGA expanded for the last time, and it was a DZ re-colonization, if I'm not mistaken.

ETA: I'm nearly positive that DZ was off campus and came back, (a lot of girls from my town were early members after the recolonization) but there doesn't seem to be a record I could verify. Is it just standard practice to report dates on campus as continuous since the chartering? Edited Again: An online UGA factbook gives the DZ date as 1987. 20 years later, they are doing very well.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I found the 20 year old example very helpful because I had been wondering if re-organizations ever work long terms.

My point wasn't really that the reorg worked even 20 years later - it was more of a "it might have been OK to make the majority of the chapter leave in the middle of the semester back then, but since the NPC (not really just the governing org, but the invididual groups) are a tad bit more PC nowadays, and always trying to cover their bases, something like that might not "fly" like it used to."

Schools were probably very different back then too... in a make-believe world, maybe it would have been OK for the DZ HQ to do this at DePauw 20 years ago, but something like that is no longer acceptable. At least not at DePauw.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

My point wasn't really that the reorg worked even 20 years later - it was more of a "it might have been OK to make the majority of the chapter leave in the middle of the semester back then, but since the NPC (not really just the governing org, but the invididual groups) are a tad bit more PC nowadays, and always trying to cover their bases, something like that might not "fly" like it used to."

Schools were probably very different back then too... in a make-believe world, maybe it would have been OK for the DZ HQ to do this at DePauw 20 years ago, but something like that is no longer acceptable. At least not at DePauw.

I think reorgs/instant recolonizations went over much better 20 years ago, just because Greek life was more popular. People wanted to be Greek a lot more than they do now and they weren't going to really delve into the "why" of what was happening.

The thing is though, the smaller the school, the more quickly what happened is going to get around to all corners. That was true before and now with the internet it's even more so.

[UGAalum94]

I don't think have changed as much on campus as far as Greek life in the last 20 years as you might think, especially at a school like UGA. Of course I can’t speak for DePauw.

1987 may seem like the dark ages to you, but having lived then, I can assure you that many of the restrictions that we see in Greek life now were in full effect by the early 1990s, and it's likely would have been being implemented by 1987. I suspect there were some radical shifts in Greek life about the time that the drinking age was raised from 18 to 21 in 1984, but by 1987, the only areas that have probably been more regulated now than then are rules for new members and some groups adding sexual orientation to their non-discrimination clauses.

Kicking girls out of their housing mid-semester would never have played well, and I don’t think we can assume that it has happened in other re-organizations unless we have evidence that it did. It’s one of the most remarkably callous elements of the treatment of former members in this case.

I think that the new media that the former members had access to, maybe more than any other aspect, may have changed how the re-organization played out. Previously we would have been at the mercy of the traditional media alone for information on the story, and here, we had social network sites, GreekChat, the official university and GLO websites fanning the flames of public interest. The “officials” can’t spin as effectively as they used to, and GLOs are going to need to keep that in mind.

There’s one other aspect I think may contribute to conflicts like this, but I don’t think it falls under the idea of PC and it didn’t seem to be an aspect of the DePauw situation: college students today are more likely than ever, if you believe the media reports, to continue to run to Mom and Dad with their problems. I think this behavior, more than any Political Correctness, maybe what causes colleges to start thinking in terms of “protecting” members from their groups.

I want to emphasize something: DZ at UGA in 1987 was a true re-colonization; they were closed and re-opened. They’ve done very well and remain a strong chapter. I wanted to emphasize this because I didn’t want anyone to think they had some kind of history of unpleasant re-organizations.

[33girl]

I'm as old as you are, silly

I think we were just answering questions about reorgs & recolonizations in general. I agree that forcing people to leave housing w/out RM issues, at a small school where everyone knows what's happening, would never have gone over well.

Who knows how things would have gone if DZ had made everyone alum, gone along with the chapter's vote to self-close at the end of this school year and recolonized at DePauw in 2008-09, as seemed to be the original plan? Do you think it would have worked out?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I'm as old as you are, silly

I think we were just answering questions about reorgs & recolonizations in general. I agree that forcing people to leave housing w/out RM issues, at a small school where everyone knows what's happening, would never have gone over well.

Who knows how things would have gone if DZ had made everyone alum, gone along with the chapter's vote to self-close at the end of this school year and recolonized at DePauw in 2008-09, as seemed to be the original plan? Do you think it would have worked out?

I got the impression that maybe Texas*Princess thought we just cast people out into the darkness for gaining five pounds back in the olden days of 1987. Actually, Texas*Princess, I didn't think you meant any harm at all, but I did want to reassure you that the values weren't that different back then.

Here's the thing: I have my doubts about how almost immediate re-colonizations and re-organizations are ever going to work. Would a year be long enough that the reputation of the group would change that much?

That's why I'm interested to hear about re-organizations that "took." I want to hear about cases in which five or ten years down the road the group is still as strong as it was the day that IHQs did the re-organization recruitment.

[FuzzieAlum]

Alphagamuga, I'm with you as to having doubts. In the few cases I've seen, either the new group of women (or for that matter men) did not gain enough new members and closed before anyone was initiated, or they got barely enough members and were able to stay open but were no stronger than before.

Part of the problem is that, regardless of why they couldn't get members, regardless of how the new alums act, about 3/4 of the campus body remembers the old chapter and associates XYZ with that image.

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

IThat's why I'm interested to hear about re-organizations that "took." I want to hear about cases in which five or ten years down the road the group is still as strong as it was the day that IHQs did the re-organization recruitment.

See my previous post. It's only been 6-7 years, but I think if the chapter was going to fold again immediately it would've already done so.

[Glitter650]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

That's why I'm interested to hear about re-organizations that "took." I want to hear about cases in which five or ten years down the road the group is still as strong as it was the day that IHQs did the re-organization recruitment.

Not five or ten years yet.... but the Phi Sig chapter at Penn did a re-org with quick turn around..... and it seems to have worked out well so far from what I hear. We will see in the long run... I know 2005 was when they were first were all settled as a chapter and the new ladies had been initiated and they were winning awards at convention and had strong numbers. One of the sisters from that chapter actually posts here sometimes. How it works out in the long run is still to be determined however.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I got the impression that maybe Texas*Princess thought we just cast people out into the darkness for gaining five pounds back in the olden days of 1987. Actually, Texas*Princess, I didn't think you meant any harm at all, but I did want to reassure you that the values weren't that different back then.

No that's not what I thought at all.

Actually this has nothing to do with weight or anything like that. I was talking about the way the "re org" was handled. (Casting people off in the middle of the semester - regardless if they were a size 10 or a minority, or really just not that into recruitment)

NPC sororities (from what I've noticed) like to keep all their bases covered a lot more now than they might have in the past. Third-party vendors at formals, gotta do everything by the "book" to make sure there are no risk-management issues, can't drink in letters, etc. etc... all for the sake of protecting our good name.

Which is why something like this (kicking the women out of their housing in the middle of the semester and yet late enough in the semester to make it a pain in the rear to have to find an apartment. I don't know about you, but back in D-town, if you didn't know where you were living next Fall by the time March or April rolled around, you were screwed) was really surprising.

You'd think a sorority like DZ would have some better sense and the foresight to see the repercussions of their actions because everything sororities have done recently seems to be to prevent PR-disasters like the one at hand.

And I'm not really sure what you mean by "running to Mom & Dad" with their problems, because on my old campus, a large portion of people I knew had their own jobs, payed their own rent and were for the most part self-suffecient. If my sorority kicked me out a few weeks before my finals, of course my parents are going to hear about it... not because I'm trying to be a whiney (*&#$ but because that's some major crap to have to deal with at a very crappy time in the semester.