Homeless people

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Believe it or not, but New York City does not have a monopoly on services available for the homeless and unemployed. We have fewer here (obviously) and are probably better able to handle them. I was complaining about downtown OKC which is a far cry from NYC. It may come as a surprise to you that we have different programs and opportunities for the unemployed down here.

no actually it doesnt.

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'd imagine as much. One can rent out a tiny efficiency for in the neighborhood of $300/month. It doesn't take nearly as much to get back on one's feet here. A fast food salary will definitely pay the rent.

if a fast food salary "definitely" paysfor the rent in OKC, then parents should start kicking out their teenagers now. and if that's the case, why dont you go pick up a McDonalds application? i HIGHLY doubt minimum wage food industry pays enough to pay rent... then again it is OKC. sooooooo, maybe you have a point.

Originally Posted by Kevin

The word "privileged" implies that I've inherited my financial status or something. That's ridiculous. Am I privileged to work 5 days a week and to go to school at night racking up massive student loans? No. I just work my ass off. Perhaps these folks don't have the raw material to go to law school, but they sure as hell can turn in half the effort I do and stock shelves at a grocery store.

well, you were priveledged enough to be able to go to college, which barely 25% of Americans get the chance to. you're priveledged enough to have a job that allows you to bust your ass to pay back student loans. hell, youre priveledged enough to even qualify for loans. AND, dont give me that BS of "what do you mean im priveledged?" out of one side of your mouth and then say some ish like

my folks have a six bedroom house, so I'm sure they could find space for me.

now i dont know many who come from 6-bedroom homes. but i cant imagine the loose change out the bottom of your pocket is any skin off your (or your family's) back. but your 6-bedroom house could be a total shack and your folks could be on welfare. tell me im wrong so you can prove me right that maybe there IS a twinge of priveledge in your blood.

Originally Posted by Kevin

So you're saying that your average homeless person begging for money is more likely to use it to buy a sandwich at McDonald's because they're tired of soup than on drugs?

we'll ive seen an equal # of homeless with their day's worth of change in Mcdonalds scraping for the dollar menu as i have in a liquor store buying cheap vodka. so... take what you want from that.

[Rudey]

I'll paypal each of you $1 to shutup.

-Rudey
--Thanks.

[amanda6035]

I never give money to anybody on the streets for anything. If they are hungy, and I have the time and money to spare, I'll duck into the nearest fast food joint and get em a combo meal. but I dont give money. Ever. Besides, I donate clothes and canned foods and such to must ministries and salvation army and places like that. I paticipate in varous causes and I think I more than do my fair share of trying to be helpful in society. But I agree with Kevin for the most part, I havent read the whole thread yet - I have to say I was shocked at how many of you attacked him though.

pride's a BS excuse. It amazes me how many people I still see panhandling in Atlanta when a law was passed saying they couldnt. There's this one guy I pass by, every single day...and yes, he has no legs, he's in a wheelchair. Do I give him money? Nope. And I never will. I've heard stories about the GaTech students who's part time job during the holidays was panhandling...who ended up with more money than I ever knew what to do with.

Yep, I'm cynical. but...I do other things to help out society. Giving money to people on the streets is not one of them.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

pride's a BS excuse. It amazes me how many people I still see panhandling in Atlanta when a law was passed saying they couldnt. There's this one guy I pass by, every single day...and yes, he has no legs, he's in a wheelchair. Do I give him money? Nope. And I never will. I've heard stories about the GaTech students who's part time job during the holidays was panhandling...who ended up with more money than I ever knew what to do with.

Considering that he (the legless guy) qualifies for 100% disability and other public assistance and is likely receiving the same, I think that's a good move. Yeah, the pride thing is a dumb excuse. If they have no problem walking up to strangers who will likely reject their offer and probably even be disrespectful, I don't see how accepting public benefit being actually offered to them is a bigger hit to the 'pride.' That's just silly.

[Senusret I]

Has anyone said "There but for the grace of God go I" in this thread yet? If not, I did.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Has anyone said "There but for the grace of God go I" in this thread yet? If not, I did.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

For me, this is perhaps the area of life where my instinctual reactions and my religious/spiritual values have the hardest time sorting each other out. I would rather not be faced with the begger -- although I don't think I've actually gone out of my way to avoid one. Sometimes I've given money, sometimes I haven't. Sometimes I have given or bought food to a homeless person, more often I probably haven't. Often, I refer or take them to a church or an agency equipped to help. I can rationalize my refusal to give money by telling myself that they'll only spend the money on drugs and alcohol 'til the cows come home, but then the religious side butts in: "Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or naked . . . ?"

I agree with you both, and yet, being approached by panhandlers scares me. I don't think it is simply my inability to control them, like someone suggested we might feel in an example involving status and waitresses. It's that they might do me harm.

I think what limited information that I've ever been given about protecting myself and self defense reinforces to be aware of the people around you. With panhandlers, my fear may be irrational but it might not be; I don't know, and it scares me to be approached because while mental illness explains why homeless people may not be employable, it doesn't make them any safer to be around. And I think a few panhandlers depend on this fear when they solicit donations; there's an implied threat or menacing nature to their approach.

Now, I think the majority of panhandlers are probably entirely safe, but I'm still not that comfortable being approached. There's a small change of danger; there's a significant change of my being scammed; and there's very little chance at all that I will help anyone in a significant way. In fact, I might be enabling choices that are likely to be even more destructive.

I want to help homeless people. I want to help poor people. But I also would like to remain unaccosted by strangers. I'd like public spaces to be unthreatening to us all, and I don't think that tolerance of begging is a good long term strategy for helping the homeless.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by tld221

well, you were priveledged enough to be able to go to college, which barely 25% of Americans get the chance to. you're priveledged enough to have a job that allows you to bust your ass to pay back student loans. hell, youre priveledged enough to even qualify for loans. AND, dont give me that BS of "what do you mean im priveledged?"

Originally Posted by Rudey

I'll paypal each of you $1 to shutup.

-Rudey
--Thanks.

[Jimmy Choo]

While I may not agree with everything that Kevin has said I can empathize with him. I have had some negative experiences with very agressive panhandlers myself so I can see how he can have the feelings that he has.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ecupidelta

While I may not agree with everything that Kevin has said I can empathize with him. I have had some negative experiences with very agressive panhandlers myself so I can see how he can have the feelings that he has.

I think we all can. I imagine all of us have run across the scammer-bumm who really doesn't want to work, and that can color our perspectives.

For me, this is perhaps the area of life where my instinctual reactions and my religious/spiritual values have the hardest time sorting each other out. I would rather not be faced with the begger -- although I don't think I've actually gone out of my way to avoid one. Sometimes I've given money, sometimes I haven't. Sometimes I have given or bought food to a homeless person, more often I probably haven't. Often, I refer or take them to a church or an agency equipped to help. I can rationalize my refusal to give money by telling myself that they'll only spend the money on drugs and alcohol 'til the cows come home, but then the religious side butts in: "Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or naked . . . ?"

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Like I said, there are programs which help poor and homeless find jobs, even provide job training. Those programs are not being utilized. Apparently, the "poor" prefer to scam the system.

I suppose you believe us "poor" folks sit at home watching TV collecting welfare checks too right? Because all of the volunteer work you do gives you such great exposure and all.

Originally Posted by kddani

And the job you're working, last I remember, is for your daddy's law firm.

ok... first the 6 bedroom house, now this? don't EVER come at me with some "me? priveledged? no way..." bullshit in your life. ever. you've given me everything i needed to stereotype you and everyone like you. and no i dont feel any way about it because you're doing it too.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Your point?

well, you went to law school - you're not stupid. you tell me.

Originally Posted by Kevin

What that has to do with what I do for a living (so long as I do something for a living) seems pretty irrelevant.

you wish. i suppose if you were working at the local Wal-mart stocking shelves for $6/hr (or something equally lower-income), knowing full well the city, state and gov't is taking half that... maybe you'd still feel the same in that the homeless annoy you. but i guarantee that your empathy would TOTALLY shift because your status would be eons closer to their reality than yours is right now.. it is SO obvious that your feelings are attached to your status.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tld221

I suppose you believe us "poor" folks sit at home watching TV collecting welfare checks too right? Because all of the volunteer work you do gives you such great exposure and all.

Welfare fraud is out there. Do you disagree?

ok... first the 6 bedroom house, now this? don't EVER come at me with some "me? priveledged? no way..." bullshit in your life. ever. you've given me everything i needed to stereotype you and everyone like you. and no i dont feel any way about it because you're doing it too.

Okay, so let's say I'm 'privileged,' why is that even relevant? Do I need to experience something in order to comprehend it? I don't think your argument carries a whole lot of water. I never have implied anything other than the fact that I work hard for what I have and would do so regardless of what I don't have to work for. How that has anything to do with the homeless is beyond me.

well, you went to law school - you're not stupid. you tell me.

You didn't even make the comment. I'm sure kddani can answer the question herself.

you wish. i suppose if you were working at the local Wal-mart stocking shelves for $6/hr (or something equally lower-income), knowing full well the city, state and gov't is taking half that...

Half? Now you're really stretching.

maybe you'd still feel the same in that the homeless annoy you. but i guarantee that your empathy would TOTALLY shift because your status would be eons closer to their reality than yours is right now.. it is SO obvious that your feelings are attached to your status.

My feelings are attached to my status? I've explained to you several times that at least with the services offerred in this immediate area, anyone with a working mind and body can get off the streets if they'll invest a little in themselves. Knowing that has nothing to do with my status or privilege level -- it's just a fact. That someone fails to avail themselves of services they have to walk by every day in order to get to the prime panhandling locations communicates their intention not to want to work for a living.

Your "pride" arguments, etc. are completely bunk for reasons explained before. Being homeless is a choice. Sure, people do end up on the streets through no fault of their own -- but to remain there is a choice.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I think we all can. I imagine all of us have run across the scammer-bumm who really doesn't want to work, and that can color our perspectives.

For me, this is perhaps the area of life where my instinctual reactions and my religious/spiritual values have the hardest time sorting each other out. I would rather not be faced with the begger -- although I don't think I've actually gone out of my way to avoid one. Sometimes I've given money, sometimes I haven't. Sometimes I have given or bought food to a homeless person, more often I probably haven't. Often, I refer or take them to a church or an agency equipped to help. I can rationalize my refusal to give money by telling myself that they'll only spend the money on drugs and alcohol 'til the cows come home, but then the religious side butts in: "Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or naked . . . ?"

Amen

[WVU alpha phi]

While I feel sympathy towards the homeless, I still am irritated with them. I live on the street with all the bars/restaurants in Morgantown, and there are 2 or 3 homeless people who are consistently around. One of them keeps to himself, never asks for money, and he doesn't bother me at all. The other one sits outside all day asking "Have any change?" with a damn box of oranges, a sombrero on his head, and shaking maracas. I never give him money because I constantly see peope giving him A LOT of money, plus I really don't appreciate being asked for money when I'm walking to class. I'm much more likely to buy a homeless person a sandwich or give them my leftovers from a restaurant than give them a 5 dollar bill - especially when I've done this in the past to some bum who gave me a lame story about needing a bus ticket to Pittsburgh, then harassed my friend with the same story a week later. I feel bad for people who are trying to get on their feet, and I realize it must be horrible for them to see priveleged college students blowing money at the bar, but I'm not about to hand out my parents' hard earned money to them.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tld221

if a fast food salary "definitely" paysfor the rent in OKC, then parents should start kicking out their teenagers now. and if that's the case, why dont you go pick up a McDonalds application? i HIGHLY doubt minimum wage food industry pays enough to pay rent... then again it is OKC. sooooooo, maybe you have a point.

McDonald's is not a minimum wage job. Minimum wage jobs make up around 2% of all jobs -- most of those jobs belonging to teenagers. I do know of a few teenagers who have been kicked out of their parents' homes at early ages and have been able to survive while going to high school. My wife teaches at an inner-city college prep charter school, so I do get to hear quite a few success stories along those lines.

well, you were priveledged enough to be able to go to college, which barely 25% of Americans get the chance to. you're priveledged enough to have a job that allows you to bust your ass to pay back student loans. hell, youre priveledged enough to even qualify for loans. AND, dont give me that BS of "what do you mean im priveledged?" out of one side of your mouth and then say some ish like

Well actually, I'm racking up those loans while working a job to pay for living expenses. Privilege in this society is something that is earned, not given. Sure, some of us start out ahead, but that's not always enough. I'm sure we all know of kids of millionaires who end up getting written out of any inheritance and kicked to the curb because they're irresponsible... or at least I know some.

now i dont know many who come from 6-bedroom homes. but i cant imagine the loose change out the bottom of your pocket is any skin off your (or your family's) back. but your 6-bedroom house could be a total shack and your folks could be on welfare. tell me im wrong so you can prove me right that maybe there IS a twinge of priveledge in your blood.

I never intimated that I had humble beginnings. The six bedroom house is about 1 year old, in a gated community on a lake. It's admittedly a pretty damn nice place. That said, while I have a great safety net both of my own and my parents' creation, I actually paid for my own undergrad schooling with a scholarship and am currently paying for law school with student loans. I haven't had to touch that trust fund yet

The point is that I haven't pissed away my opportunities as so many do. That's just the way our society functions. I don't owe anything more than the exorbitant taxes I pay (and will pay) to health and human services. Considering the vast sum of money going to that part of the federal budget, you should stop every wealthy person you see on the street and thank them for paying your salary (you said you're a social worker, right?). Without that top 5% or so being punished for being successful, our welfare system wouldn't be half as well funded as it is today.

we'll ive seen an equal # of homeless with their day's worth of change in Mcdonalds scraping for the dollar menu as i have in a liquor store buying cheap vodka. so... take what you want from that.

Terrific.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well actually, I'm racking up those loans while working a job to pay for living expenses. Privilege in this society is something that is earned, not given.

And the job you're working, last I remember, is for your daddy's law firm.