Homeless people

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If they're asking me for my money, they're asking me to judge whether or not they're worthy of my money. If they're scurrying around the streets hitting people up for money, invading their privacy and space, again, it's my business to judge.

Am I really leaping to say that people who are capable of remaining on their feet all day long, trying to con people out of money are physically capable of other kinds of work, particularly if they take the time to invest a little in themselves? I don't believe that's a leap at all. The fact is that those who do not avail themselves of such services remain on the streets. Why should I or anyone finance that choice? I know for a fact that these services are out there. If someone *chooses* not to take advantage of opportunities, again, their problem.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Considering the other choices I know for a fact that he or she has available to them, you're wrong. It may not be the case in your immediate area, so you shouldn't be casting such a wide net. I know *exactly* what services are available down here. Like I said before, I even did a little volunteer work for the job training/placement service (which is located near the homeless shelter for a reason). I know for a fact that this place does not get near the amount of 'business' that it is set up to handle. It is not an unreasonable inference at all to say that these unemployed, homeless people simply do not want to take advantage of a program which will train them, move them if necessary and find a job for them free of charge.

by "my immediate area" you mean the greater NYC metro area? please there are hundreds times more homeless people than there are shelters, soup kitchens, outreach centers, etc. available. so in *my* immediate area, i do believe most of the people who need the help access it in some form, even if it is going to a pantry once a week for a loaf of bread or a men's shelter for a daily shower. and i'm giving YOU examples of volunteer projects i've worked in. and you'll always have your number of folks who just aren't trying at all. but again i couldnt pinpoint them on the street and say "that filthy liar - he could totally get a job and be OK if he wanted to." which is what you're doing.

perhaps the ratios are different in OKC than NYC and you are exposed to a greater number of folks who can actually get their hustle up and make something for themselves. i just dont see that here as much.

Originally Posted by Kevin

You're suggesting that someone who is hitting individuals on the street up for cash, dealing with a lot of rejection and spite, knowing that they are creating an uncomfortable situation for others has more "pride" than someone who simply gets in line at a soup kitchen or signs up for a program to help them get back on their feet.

oh, so damn them homeless because they're making us, the "priveledged" inconvienenced? oooh poor baby. you will live. geez.

and the dude who is asking you for change in the morning could be in the line at the soup kitchen in the afernoon, then back on the streets during PM rush hour, and in the shelter to get a bed for the night. just because homeless arent putting 2 and 2 together to make a decent living doesnt mean they dont have the smarts to say "well panhandling couldnt hurt - all people can say is no."

Originally Posted by Kevin

As I have repeated here, there is a program downtown which by the way is not even near capacity which specializes in finding employment for these folks. I understand you're not well acquainted with downtown Oklahoma City. If they're able to, they absolutely can work.

and this is why i say youre cutting and drying. you keep naming this ONE program. what happens when th less fortunate wise up, start taking advantage hardcore, and there are no more empployment in OKC? then what are you going to start recommending?

Originally Posted by Kevin

Don't worry, it won't. I'm well prepared for any eventuality which may befall me (at least financially).

and i commend you for putting yourself in an advantageous position. but i dont commend you for the level of certainty you are holding. i believe that is called "getting comfortable." and we all know folks who get comfortable take downfall the hardest.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Beggars can't be choosers. Statistically speaking, I'm going to be more correct on this one than you are. Drug and alcohol dependency is a big reason people end up on the street.

and conversely, people end up on the street and create a drug and alcohol dependency. so how are you more correct than I?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tld221

by "my immediate area" you mean the greater NYC metro area? please there are hundreds times more homeless people than there are shelters, soup kitchens, outreach centers, etc. available. so in *my* immediate area, i do believe most of the people who need the help access it in some form, even if it is going to a pantry once a week for a loaf of bread or a men's shelter for a daily shower. and i'm giving YOU examples of volunteer projects i've worked in. and you'll always have your number of folks who just aren't trying at all. but again i couldnt pinpoint them on the street and say "that filthy liar - he could totally get a job and be OK if he wanted to." which is what you're doing.

Believe it or not, but New York City does not have a monopoly on services available for the homeless and unemployed. We have fewer here (obviously) and are probably better able to handle them. I was complaining about downtown OKC which is a far cry from NYC. It may come as a surprise to you that we have different programs and opportunities for the unemployed down here.

perhaps the ratios are different in OKC than NYC and you are exposed to a greater number of folks who can actually get their hustle up and make something for themselves. i just don't see that here as much.

I'd imagine as much. One can rent out a tiny efficiency for in the neighborhood of $300/month. It doesn't take nearly as much to get back on one's feet here. A fast food salary will definitely pay the rent.

oh, so damn them homeless because they're making us, the "priveledged" inconvienenced? oooh poor baby. you will live. geez.

The word "privileged" implies that I've inherited my financial status or something. That's ridiculous. Am I privileged to work 5 days a week and to go to school at night racking up massive student loans? No. I just work my ass off. Perhaps these folks don't have the raw material to go to law school, but they sure as hell can turn in half the effort I do and stock shelves at a grocery store.

and the dude who is asking you for change in the morning could be in the line at the soup kitchen in the afernoon, then back on the streets during PM rush hour, and in the shelter to get a bed for the night. just because homeless arent putting 2 and 2 together to make a decent living doesnt mean they dont have the smarts to say "well panhandling couldnt hurt - all people can say is no."

And I guess they'd have to be content to do that. To each his own.

and this is why i say youre cutting and drying. you keep naming this ONE program. what happens when th less fortunate wise up, start taking advantage hardcore, and there are no more empployment in OKC? then what are you going to start recommending?

Well, that's not happening, so your situation is hypothetical while mine is current. That stupid people "wise up" is doubtful.

and i commend you for putting yourself in an advantageous position. but i dont commend you for the level of certainty you are holding. i believe that is called "getting comfortable." and we all know folks who get comfortable take downfall the hardest.

I'm sure you'd like to see that. But no. I suppose if worse came to worse, my folks have a six bedroom house, so I'm sure they could find space for me.

and conversely, people end up on the street and create a drug and alcohol dependency. so how are you more correct than I?

So you're saying that your average homeless person begging for money is more likely to use it to buy a sandwich at McDonald's because they're tired of soup than on drugs?

[Tom Earp]

As I said, there are those who do not want to work or clean them selves up because they find it easier, and their are those who are left in the cracks whether it becaus of physcological or physical problems!

I will never become that way and That Is My Decission!

[KSUViolet06]

Over the summer, there was this man who would stand on the corner and hold a sign that said "will work for food or money." My stepdad saw him standing there on the way home from work.

We were doing some work on our house and yard at the time. So my stepdad stopped and offered to let him come do some work for us, since his sign said "will WORK for food or money." He told him that he could mow our front and back yards and plant some shrubs and he would give him some lunch AND $100.

My stepdad was totally shocked when he said "NO THANKS". You said you'd work for food or money and he was willing to give you both for what was probably 2 hours of work! I don't get that.

[ShaedyKD]

My favorite Houston homeless guy is the one who sits by the side of I-10 and holds a sign requesting "2 cheeseburgers and a diet Coke".

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Believe it or not, but New York City does not have a monopoly on services available for the homeless and unemployed. We have fewer here (obviously) and are probably better able to handle them. I was complaining about downtown OKC which is a far cry from NYC. It may come as a surprise to you that we have different programs and opportunities for the unemployed down here.

no actually it doesnt.

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'd imagine as much. One can rent out a tiny efficiency for in the neighborhood of $300/month. It doesn't take nearly as much to get back on one's feet here. A fast food salary will definitely pay the rent.

if a fast food salary "definitely" paysfor the rent in OKC, then parents should start kicking out their teenagers now. and if that's the case, why dont you go pick up a McDonalds application? i HIGHLY doubt minimum wage food industry pays enough to pay rent... then again it is OKC. sooooooo, maybe you have a point.

Originally Posted by Kevin

The word "privileged" implies that I've inherited my financial status or something. That's ridiculous. Am I privileged to work 5 days a week and to go to school at night racking up massive student loans? No. I just work my ass off. Perhaps these folks don't have the raw material to go to law school, but they sure as hell can turn in half the effort I do and stock shelves at a grocery store.

well, you were priveledged enough to be able to go to college, which barely 25% of Americans get the chance to. you're priveledged enough to have a job that allows you to bust your ass to pay back student loans. hell, youre priveledged enough to even qualify for loans. AND, dont give me that BS of "what do you mean im priveledged?" out of one side of your mouth and then say some ish like

my folks have a six bedroom house, so I'm sure they could find space for me.

now i dont know many who come from 6-bedroom homes. but i cant imagine the loose change out the bottom of your pocket is any skin off your (or your family's) back. but your 6-bedroom house could be a total shack and your folks could be on welfare. tell me im wrong so you can prove me right that maybe there IS a twinge of priveledge in your blood.

Originally Posted by Kevin

So you're saying that your average homeless person begging for money is more likely to use it to buy a sandwich at McDonald's because they're tired of soup than on drugs?

we'll ive seen an equal # of homeless with their day's worth of change in Mcdonalds scraping for the dollar menu as i have in a liquor store buying cheap vodka. so... take what you want from that.

[Rudey]

I'll paypal each of you $1 to shutup.

-Rudey
--Thanks.

[amanda6035]

I never give money to anybody on the streets for anything. If they are hungy, and I have the time and money to spare, I'll duck into the nearest fast food joint and get em a combo meal. but I dont give money. Ever. Besides, I donate clothes and canned foods and such to must ministries and salvation army and places like that. I paticipate in varous causes and I think I more than do my fair share of trying to be helpful in society. But I agree with Kevin for the most part, I havent read the whole thread yet - I have to say I was shocked at how many of you attacked him though.

pride's a BS excuse. It amazes me how many people I still see panhandling in Atlanta when a law was passed saying they couldnt. There's this one guy I pass by, every single day...and yes, he has no legs, he's in a wheelchair. Do I give him money? Nope. And I never will. I've heard stories about the GaTech students who's part time job during the holidays was panhandling...who ended up with more money than I ever knew what to do with.

Yep, I'm cynical. but...I do other things to help out society. Giving money to people on the streets is not one of them.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

pride's a BS excuse. It amazes me how many people I still see panhandling in Atlanta when a law was passed saying they couldnt. There's this one guy I pass by, every single day...and yes, he has no legs, he's in a wheelchair. Do I give him money? Nope. And I never will. I've heard stories about the GaTech students who's part time job during the holidays was panhandling...who ended up with more money than I ever knew what to do with.

Considering that he (the legless guy) qualifies for 100% disability and other public assistance and is likely receiving the same, I think that's a good move. Yeah, the pride thing is a dumb excuse. If they have no problem walking up to strangers who will likely reject their offer and probably even be disrespectful, I don't see how accepting public benefit being actually offered to them is a bigger hit to the 'pride.' That's just silly.

[Senusret I]

Has anyone said "There but for the grace of God go I" in this thread yet? If not, I did.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Has anyone said "There but for the grace of God go I" in this thread yet? If not, I did.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

For me, this is perhaps the area of life where my instinctual reactions and my religious/spiritual values have the hardest time sorting each other out. I would rather not be faced with the begger -- although I don't think I've actually gone out of my way to avoid one. Sometimes I've given money, sometimes I haven't. Sometimes I have given or bought food to a homeless person, more often I probably haven't. Often, I refer or take them to a church or an agency equipped to help. I can rationalize my refusal to give money by telling myself that they'll only spend the money on drugs and alcohol 'til the cows come home, but then the religious side butts in: "Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or naked . . . ?"

I agree with you both, and yet, being approached by panhandlers scares me. I don't think it is simply my inability to control them, like someone suggested we might feel in an example involving status and waitresses. It's that they might do me harm.

I think what limited information that I've ever been given about protecting myself and self defense reinforces to be aware of the people around you. With panhandlers, my fear may be irrational but it might not be; I don't know, and it scares me to be approached because while mental illness explains why homeless people may not be employable, it doesn't make them any safer to be around. And I think a few panhandlers depend on this fear when they solicit donations; there's an implied threat or menacing nature to their approach.

Now, I think the majority of panhandlers are probably entirely safe, but I'm still not that comfortable being approached. There's a small change of danger; there's a significant change of my being scammed; and there's very little chance at all that I will help anyone in a significant way. In fact, I might be enabling choices that are likely to be even more destructive.

I want to help homeless people. I want to help poor people. But I also would like to remain unaccosted by strangers. I'd like public spaces to be unthreatening to us all, and I don't think that tolerance of begging is a good long term strategy for helping the homeless.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by tld221

well, you were priveledged enough to be able to go to college, which barely 25% of Americans get the chance to. you're priveledged enough to have a job that allows you to bust your ass to pay back student loans. hell, youre priveledged enough to even qualify for loans. AND, dont give me that BS of "what do you mean im priveledged?"

Originally Posted by Rudey

I'll paypal each of you $1 to shutup.

-Rudey
--Thanks.

[Jimmy Choo]

While I may not agree with everything that Kevin has said I can empathize with him. I have had some negative experiences with very agressive panhandlers myself so I can see how he can have the feelings that he has.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ecupidelta

While I may not agree with everything that Kevin has said I can empathize with him. I have had some negative experiences with very agressive panhandlers myself so I can see how he can have the feelings that he has.

I think we all can. I imagine all of us have run across the scammer-bumm who really doesn't want to work, and that can color our perspectives.

For me, this is perhaps the area of life where my instinctual reactions and my religious/spiritual values have the hardest time sorting each other out. I would rather not be faced with the begger -- although I don't think I've actually gone out of my way to avoid one. Sometimes I've given money, sometimes I haven't. Sometimes I have given or bought food to a homeless person, more often I probably haven't. Often, I refer or take them to a church or an agency equipped to help. I can rationalize my refusal to give money by telling myself that they'll only spend the money on drugs and alcohol 'til the cows come home, but then the religious side butts in: "Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or naked . . . ?"

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Like I said, there are programs which help poor and homeless find jobs, even provide job training. Those programs are not being utilized. Apparently, the "poor" prefer to scam the system.

I suppose you believe us "poor" folks sit at home watching TV collecting welfare checks too right? Because all of the volunteer work you do gives you such great exposure and all.

Originally Posted by kddani

And the job you're working, last I remember, is for your daddy's law firm.

ok... first the 6 bedroom house, now this? don't EVER come at me with some "me? priveledged? no way..." bullshit in your life. ever. you've given me everything i needed to stereotype you and everyone like you. and no i dont feel any way about it because you're doing it too.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Your point?

well, you went to law school - you're not stupid. you tell me.

Originally Posted by Kevin

What that has to do with what I do for a living (so long as I do something for a living) seems pretty irrelevant.

you wish. i suppose if you were working at the local Wal-mart stocking shelves for $6/hr (or something equally lower-income), knowing full well the city, state and gov't is taking half that... maybe you'd still feel the same in that the homeless annoy you. but i guarantee that your empathy would TOTALLY shift because your status would be eons closer to their reality than yours is right now.. it is SO obvious that your feelings are attached to your status.