Homeless people

[Kevin]

tld, I'd never be in that sort of position. I'm not the person some of these folks are. OKC is an interesting place. There is at least one sort of pseudo-corporate entity that sponsors beggars (I've seen a van doing pickups/dropoffs). These guys on a busy street corner can rake in some pretty good money. A decent middle class living at least.. all cash.

As for pride? I don't really care about their situation. Their problems are not my problems. This is a country where someone can sneak over the border with nothing but the clothes on their backs, not be able to speak the language and still be able to make a paycheck.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Kevin

tld, I'd never be in that sort of position. I'm not the person some of these folks are.

We'll i (rather my family) never thought i'd be in "that sort of position" either. no one KNOWS theyre gonna end up homeless. just like you said, people can come to this country with nothing and fair OK... but conversely, people who are economically comfortable can fall flat on their @sses and go to nothing. it's less likely, but it does happen.

Originally Posted by Kevin

As for pride? I don't really care about their situation. Their problems are not my problems.

well lucky you - youre financially comfortable enough that you can distance yourself from the unpleasantries of the less fortunate. god forbid that they ruin your appetite by asking for change and smelling less than desirable.

how can you judge then? seriously, you dont know the backstory - you just know what is front and center. all im sayin is that there's a LOT going on behind the vans that pick them up and drop them off in the city. i know in some parts of DC, the city will sweep homeless into vans, drop them off in some random ass place, give them $10 and bounce. doesn't that suck?

and im sure if these people had a network to fall back on (and im not talking about going to public assistance or having to ask for help from the government, but a real safety net - family, friends, mentors, counselors) then it could be another reason to stay off the streets.

[EE-BO]

Read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich and then we'll talk. Seriously- that book will give you a new perspective.

I see your point Kevin to a degree (and I too get agitated when approached repeatedly or aggressively), but it is frightening how quickly a person can become homeless in this country with current rental rates (courtesy of real estate speculation and rapacious property taxes) even if they do have a job- or even two jobs.

I have had countless employees, some of them making $30K+ a year, who have a place to live for them and their kids only because family and friends are helping them out. Again, I see your point in some cases, but you would be amazed how many people are NOT homeless in this country who would be homeless if it were not for the support of friends and family. And many homeless are that way because they do not have friends and family to help.

[AlexMack]

Dude, you're a real selfish prick. Okay, harrassing you is one thing but just plain not giving a damn?
Sorry I was raised in a family where my parents would travel to London once a month with vanloads of sandwiches, drinks, old clothes and blankets to hand out to the homeless.
It doesn't matter how they got there, the fact is they're homeless. Have a little goddamn compassion in that stone lump you call a heart.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by centaur532

It doesn't matter how they got there, the fact is they're homeless. Have a little goddamn compassion in that stone lump you call a heart.

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance? We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance? We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

Would you like to discuss the state of mental health care in this country? A lot of homeless people are those who cannot receive enough care whether medication, therapy, residential care or otherwise to function in normal society. Their job/insurance/Medicaid doesn't pay for their pills (or only pays for pills not therapy to help you stay on them) which leads to your schizophrenia causing you to lose your job. No job, no home. If you're not serverly disabled you can't stay at a mental health facility long term. Social services try but there's not enough money.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance? We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

I'm not saying blindly give, I am saying you're lumping all homeless people under the same umbrella, like they're not good enough to breathe the same air. Yes, some people could go out and get jobs, but a lot of homeless people, for various reasons, can't do that.
I literally don't carry change or cash on me, otherwise I would give a lot more. Maybe I'm just soft, whereas my career would indicate that I be burned out and hardened.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by centaur532

I'm not saying blindly give, I am saying you're lumping all homeless people under the same umbrella, like they're not good enough to breathe the same air.

Are you kidding? He specifically separated the homeless into two distinct groups, and noted an example of why he feels something resembling compassion for one and not the other. Wow.

Originally Posted by centaur532

Yes, some people could go out and get jobs, but a lot of homeless people, for various reasons, can't do that.

OK . . . what are those 'various reasons'? If it's mental health issues, then the problem lies with the failure of the welfare state to adequately and efficiently fund the resources already available - which can mean anything from the state/federal government to the actual agencies in charge (this is another argument entirely).

If it's social Darwinism in any form (job market, pride/humility, housing costs, etc) then I'm not sure exactly how you're going to reconcile this point - are you really helping by funding the 'homeless lifestyle'? I mean this in earnest - I don't really know the answer. It seems like there is some short-term compassion that would prevent long-term improvement, but it is really hard to say/quantify.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance?

i believe in economics there are the employed and unemployed. the unemployed are broken into: not working and actively seeking, not working and not seeking, and the discouraged worker, who is so fed up with looking for work because the market had slammed them with "dont call us well call you" and "you just dont have the qualifications" for years. that, plus, say... NOT HAVING A HOME or any resources to call your own, well that will kick you in the @ss anyday and surely make you not give a damn.

Originally Posted by Kevin

We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. and once the homeless start taking advantage of these "free" services, people like you start complaining about how your hard-earned tax dollars are paying for no-good people who can't get it together but could if they wanted to. and again, im going back to the pride issue - it takes a lot for someone to say "i need [insert assistance] help." that admits you cant provide for yourself (and potentially your family). and isnt that the american dream anyway - to be able to be as self-sufficient as possible?

and this takes me back to my OP about homeless people being "people without homes" because guess what? homeless people are PEOPLE first. that means like you, they have feelings. like you, they have (or had) dreams. like you, they at one point have enjoyed the comforts of a home, a decent meal and stability. but even without all of that, they are still PEOPLE. so while you say "why cant they just go to the free shelters, or the free soup kitchens?" youre suggesting a man (or woman) to go to another man and say "give to me." talk about feelings of emasculation.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

no, you shouldnt be blindly or stupidly compassionate. in fact i think most of the posters here are saying to be compassionate with some sort of knowledge. because right now, youre spewing a bunch of right-wing BS one-liners that show no depth of knowledge than what you see at face value. i swear if there is a pamphlet of "common homeless myths" everything you have said would be in there.

[Still BLUTANG]

i'm the type of person who always gives food to the homeless. Maybe because i'm chubby, i always have an extra granola bar or piece of fruit or bottle of water on me... i don't see it as a big deal to spare.

If they ask for money, i just let them know i don't have it (honestly) but if you're hungry i have something to share. If i'm downtown or somewhere walking (and i have TIME) i will offer to take them to mcdonalds or something. sometimes people accept, sometimes people cuss me out. Oh well, i've done my part.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tld221

i believe in economics there are the employed and unemployed. the unemployed are broken into: not working and actively seeking, not working and not seeking, and the discouraged worker, who is so fed up with looking for work because the market had slammed them with "dont call us well call you" and "you just dont have the qualifications" for years. that, plus, say... NOT HAVING A HOME or any resources to call your own, well that will kick you in the @ss anyday and surely make you not give a damn.

So what you're saying is that there are people who don't want to continue to look for work because they either don't have any marketable skills [their fault] or they have some self-esteem issues [also their fault]. Like I said, there's a state program which had untapped capacity which provides job training and placement services for free -- in many cases it'll even assist people with relocation related costs (probably nothing more than a bus ticket if you're homeless, and the greyhound station is also within walking distance). So at the end of the day, we're still talking about people who don't want to be responsible for themselves (absent the physically handicapped who are eligible for government assistance and the schizos who we could probably do better for, but thanks to the Supreme Court, we can't just institutionalize them).

Riiiiiiiiiiight. and once the homeless start taking advantage of these "free" services, people like you start complaining about how your hard-earned tax dollars are paying for no-good people who can't get it together but could if they wanted to. and again, im going back to the pride issue - it takes a lot for someone to say "i need [insert assistance] help." that admits you cant provide for yourself (and potentially your family). and isnt that the american dream anyway - to be able to be as self-sufficient as possible?

Why don't you look at the original post. I was specifically talking about the bums who walk up to me on the street and ask for handouts, feigning illnesses, running people down, etc., not the people down at the shelter.

I couldn't care less that these folks take advantage of charitable services and state-run employment relocation/retraining services. I think those are great programs which provide an overall economic benefit if taken advantage of (even a marginally employed person costs the state less than an unemployed person).

You're making a leap here which simply cannot be inferred from any of my posts except that you're stereotyping me as a "right winger" or something along those lines.

and this takes me back to my OP about homeless people being "people without homes" because guess what? homeless people are PEOPLE first.

Awww.. I'll bet that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to say that. So people are not homeless due to their own bad choices. It's society's fault... two Americas and all that.

that means like you, they have feelings. like you, they have (or had) dreams. like you, they at one point have enjoyed the comforts of a home, a decent meal and stability.

It helps to have a job/income. That's the step 1 that many of these people can't seem to fathom. There's actually a business located pretty near to here where they can walk in, and if they can perform manual labor, they get paid for that day in cash.

but even without all of that, they are still PEOPLE. so while you say "why cant they just go to the free shelters, or the free soup kitchens?" youre suggesting a man (or woman) to go to another man and say "give to me." talk about feelings of emasculation.

Personally, if I were homeless, I'd feel a lot better going to a soup kitchen and using services designed for that purpose than hitting up random strangers on the street, making them feel uncomfortable, etc. The "pride" picture you're trying to paint here simply doesn't seem realistic.

no, you shouldnt be blindly or stupidly compassionate. in fact i think most of the posters here are saying to be compassionate with some sort of knowledge. because right now, youre spewing a bunch of right-wing BS one-liners that show no depth of knowledge than what you see at face value.

And you spew a bunch of typical left-wing b.s. one-liners, so I guess we're even in that regard, eh?

i swear if there is a pamphlet of "common homeless myths" everything you have said would be in there.

I don't believe I've said anything which you have shown to be mythical. Maybe you can point those things out to me?

[RoyalEmpress33]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance? We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

I can't really pass judgement on homeless people, mainly because I don't understand it. How can you allow yourself to get that poor? Did they choose that kind of life? (I've heard stories of people who purposely did this so they wouldn't have to pay bills, taxes etc.) I'm not trying to be insensitive or anything like that. I understand that everyone's situation may be different but like Kevin said, there are shelters etc. that are available to people who need the assistance. And while I don't know what everyone does with there spare change they get from strangers, a lot of people do go right back to the store to get alcohol and drugs. That's probably what landed their butt on the streets in the first place.

As far as the 'can beggars be choosy' question, my neutrality is really kicking in. I mean, let's be real here-you're POOR. It seems to me that a poor person would get whatever they could take. But then again, they're human beings as well and they deserve quality living. I don't know. I'm straddling the fence.

[dekeguy]

Two thoughts occur to me: Firstly, when I was about ten years old my Aunt told me the story of Saint Martin of Tours. Might be worthwhile to google it and see if you think it applies. Secondly, a lot of homeless people are veterans who have seen too much of the horror of war and just can't fit into mainstream society as a result. I'll be damned to hell if I ever pass up a veteran asking for help if I have so much as a dime to my name.
One might remember the source of the phrase, 'and the greatest of these is charity'.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

One might remember the source of the phrase, 'and the greatest of these is charity'.

Damn Catholics. The phrase is "The greatest of these is love."

I know that in Catholic-speak love=charity, but let's not go there.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Damn Catholics. The phrase is "The greatest of these is love."

I know that in Catholic-speak love=charity, but let's not go there.

Hey, just cause we taught you good don't mean you got to get all cranky bout it.