?*PAPER MADE*???

[Virtuous Woman]

I'm staying out of this conversation but this is something that people fail to realize.

You can pledge without physical and mental hazing.

***exits thread****

[sigmadiva]

^^^^^ Don't leave!!!!

Seriously though, I never thought it did anyone any good to first of all stay on line for more than 8 weeks. I mean, come on, what the h@ll does it take more than 8 weeks to learn about your org? Some one said they, or someone they knew, was on line for two semesters? Was that person getting a minor in pledge education?

Secondly, I think the physical and mental abuse during pledging is no more different from what one would find in a dysfunctional family - daddy beats me black and blue and calls me stupid because he loves me. That is bull isht.

[firecracker08]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Secondly, I think the physical and mental abuse during pledging is no more different from what one would find in a dysfunctional family - daddy beats me black and blue and calls me stupid because he loves me. That is bull isht.

What a perfect analogy! It could also be like a dysfunctional relationship too where he beats you because he loves you. That's the type of relationship I don't need.

I often wonder if pledging(in the traditional sense) cultivated and promoted lifelong membership. If not, then what's the point?

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by firecracker08

I often wonder if pledging(in the traditional sense) cultivated and promoted lifelong membership. If not, then what's the point?

I think pledging is just the begining, staying active helps to maintain the lifelong membership.

[PrettyBoy]

Hey guys, everyone has their own opinion. I agree with some of you. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have the same benefits as everyone else because you didn't get in through the traditional way of pledging. I also think it's what you do once you're in the fraternity/sorority, not what you did to get in. Someone had mentioned founders being hazed. I can't speak for Phi Mu and the other NPC sorority that was mentioned earlier, because those organizations don't really interest me enough to speak on them, but I can speak for the Founders of Kappa Alpha Psi who were all African American men. I think if I attended a college that was predominantly white that excluded me from just about everything other students could do because of the color of my skin, I would consider that a form of hazing. Being called the "N" word often while going to class isn't nice either. Name calling is a form of hazing. Isn't it? Infact they were called the "N" word so much the name of our fraternity was changed to Kappa Alpha Psi. You can find this information at any bookstore. No, they didn't haze each other, and I know they wouldn't agree with some of the things that are going on now, but what they had to go through back in 1911 because of the their skin being their sin, to me is a form of hazing. In fact if you read some of the history of Kappa Alpha Psi, you will clearly see what they went through. It was no merry go round ride. It was a hard ride.

As far as my pledge period goes, I won't comment on it, or what I had to do to become a member, but what I will say is I'm not a Neo. I'm a graduate and now working on an Industrial Design degree. I'm also very active in my fraternity and "financial". I'm a lifetime member. For those of you who don't agree with me, it's no big deal. We're all entitled to our own opinions. I just don't think anything great should come without hard work. That's all.

[PhrozenGenius]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

Hey guys, everyone has their own opinion. I agree with some of you. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have the same benefits as everyone else because you didn't get in through the traditional way of pledging. I also think it's what you do once you're in the fraternity/sorority, not what you did to get in. Someone had mentioned founders being hazed. I can't speak for Phi Mu and the other NPC sorority that was mentioned earlier, because those organizations don't really interest me enough to speak on them, but I can speak for the Founders of Kappa Alpha Psi who were all African American men. I think if I attended a college that was predominantly white that excluded me from just about everything other students could do because of the color of my skin, I would consider that a form of hazing. Being called the "N" word often while going to class isn't nice either. Name calling is a form of hazing. Isn't it? Infact they were called the "N" word so much the name of our fraternity was changed to Kappa Alpha Psi. You can find this information at any bookstore. No, they didn't haze each other, and I know they wouldn't agree with some of the things that are going on now, but what they had to go through back in 1911 because of the their skin being their sin, to me is a form of hazing. In fact if you read some of the history of Kappa Alpha Psi, you will clearly see what they went through. It was no merry go round ride. It was a hard ride.

As far as my pledge period goes, I won't comment on it, or what I had to do to become a member, but what I will say is I'm not a Neo. I'm a graduate and now working on an Industrial Design degree. I'm also very active in my fraternity and "financial". I'm a lifetime member. For those of you who don't agree with me, it's no big deal. We're all entitled to our own opinions. I just don't think anything great should come without hard work. That's all.

Having contradicted yourself a couple of times within this thread, I'll leave it with this.

PLEDGING and HAZING are two different things. In the realm of the NPHC, as far as our National Headquarters is concerned, both are illegal. Point blank. Period. Anything said on a message board about a pledge process and/or being hazed constitutes an admission of guilt (even if it is anonymous) as well as a COMPLETE lack of D-I-S-C-R-E-T-I-O-N.

The problem with the original post was not so much that anyone decried her willingness to work as being a bad thing, more so her haughty, arrogant, downright condescending attitude towards young ladies who were in a chapter of an organization that she is aspiring to be in. If your love is TRULY for the organization and its principles, then you should follow its mandates and work hard for it...whether you're paper or not.

This backwards ass, crabs in a barrel, paper vs. pledge mentality is gonna get everybody disbanded sooner or later.


FYI-I am a graduate too, working on a masters, AND a life member...

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

PLEDGING and HAZING are two different things. In the realm of the NPHC, as far as our National Headquarters is concerned, both are illegal. Point blank. Period. Anything said on a message board about a pledge process and/or being hazed constitutes an admission of guilt (even if it is anonymous) as well as a COMPLETE lack of D-I-S-C-R-E-T-I-O-N.

I agree with everything in your post. But, I would like to point out that there is a timeline at play here. The NPHC MIP was put into place ~1990 / 1991. There are many of us on this board who came through our respective orgs long before that. I was initiated in 1988 when pledging and hazing were very much the accepted norm in NPHC orgs. I said this to say that if someone asks me about my process, or about the NPHC process in general before 1990, then I will tell them how it was - pledging and hazing and all. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see that as an admission of guilt - I may not like it and agree with it, but if that is how things happened, then I am going to talk about it.

Now, if someone comes on here talking about how they were pledged / hazed *after* NPHC MIP was put into place then I think your above statement is very much correct.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Having contradicted yourself a couple of times within this thread, I'll leave it with this.

PLEDGING and HAZING are two different things. In the realm of the NPHC, as far as our National Headquarters is concerned, both are illegal. Point blank. Period. Anything said on a message board about a pledge process and/or being hazed constitutes an admission of guilt (even if it is anonymous) as well as a COMPLETE lack of D-I-S-C-R-E-T-I-O-N.

The problem with the original post was not so much that anyone decried her willingness to work as being a bad thing, more so her haughty, arrogant, downright condescending attitude towards young ladies who were in a chapter of an organization that she is aspiring to be in. If your love is TRULY for the organization and its principles, then you should follow its mandates and work hard for it...whether you're paper or not.

This backwards ass, crabs in a barrel, paper vs. pledge mentality is gonna get everybody disbanded sooner or later.


FYI-I am a graduate too, working on a masters, AND a life member...

You have some valid points but I still think things should be the way they were in 90' and before. Good luck in grad school.

[HiddenTreazure]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

^^^^^ Don't leave!!!!

Seriously though, I never thought it did anyone any good to first of all stay on line for more than 8 weeks. I mean, come on, what the h@ll does it take more than 8 weeks to learn about your org? Some one said they, or someone they knew, was on line for two semesters? Was that person getting a minor in pledge education?
Secondly, I think the physical and mental abuse during pledging is no more different from what one would find in a dysfunctional family - daddy beats me black and blue and calls me stupid because he loves me. That is bull isht.

Ooh wee Jesus. Comedy at it's finest. But that is real. Two semesters? A whole school year. 24-36 hours of classes?