In what circumstances would you support reorganization or closing?

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

Since I have never personally been involved in this, does anyone know of a circumstance where a quick-turnaround reorganization or recolonization actually worked?

I cannot speak for them, but Kappa at Georgia Southern went through reorganization this fall (per vote of the chapter, I believe) and it's my understanding they're doing well.

[Glitter650]

our chapter at U Penn. reorganized back in 2005 I believe. They are doing well, despite some upset when it first happened. I belive it was only a year and a half or two full years of being gone before they recruited again.

[UGAalum94]

Did the reorganization of Alpha Gamma Delta at Ohio State and the reorganization of Kappa at Ga. Southern involve girls going alum while they were still on campus and restarting with a colony picked by an extension team? I'm curious how it could go down so differently than DePauw.

Can you do a re-organization or re-colonization without making the current girls go alum? (I mean, it doesn't seem like the words allow for it, but why couldn't you, in fact, start with the girls you had, rather than from scratch, if they were still going to be on campus anyway?)

Weirdly, I can understand closing the chapter for four years to let everyone graduate and trying to colonize again with a new reputation, but I really hate the idea of dumping the girls that were just recruited in the last few years. It makes it about rejecting them as damaged goods, and that's really distasteful to me. How could it ever communicate anything other than, "If we could only get rid of you, then we can be really cool."

I'm not delusional about what incorporation mean in terms of shared responsibility and costs, but this rhetoric of being businesses is very unattractive. Sure, I know that since the GLOs are incorporated and have costs, members and chapters must meet their financial obligation to the organization. But it shouldn't become about maximizing the money in some way beyond the costs of operation.

I'm not busting on you, Honeychile, but if re-organizations become the wave of the future, national Greek life is done, in my opinion. No one joins a group to be at the mercy of IHQ. They know they are joining a national organization and expect IHQ to serve their needs in living out the sisterhood; they don't regard themselves as the pawns of the ladies at the top. It's also disgusting if you look back on any organization's history and ideals that it would come to that: opening and closing franchises because they weren't profitable enough. No thanks.

[UGAalum94]

Here's my bad analogy: instead of saying we are businesses, I think we should look for a similarity with churches or charities. (And NO, I don't worship Alpha Gamma Delta)

These groups also have expenses and insurance and are often incorporated, but you'd never hear them say, "Well, membership at that location is low, so we're going to close it and start again. And we'll make sure that none of the old members come to the new place because we don't want the reputation to follow us." Instead, maybe they change leadership at the location and give the group support to make sure that it offers what people actually need to be successful and grow.

Now, I know that GLOs are really just social clubs; I'm not kidding myself that they're that spiritual or altruistic. But surely we offer something other than popularity and image to attract members. There's something at the heart of it, right? Tradition, values, support, community, something authentic, right?

ETA: I want to make it clear that I was working on composing my posts before I was able to read ADGee's. I didn't want anyone to think I was being critical of her efforts. I'm glad those chapters are doing well. I'm glad they looked out for the new alums.

[CZAXOTerp]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Here's my bad analogy: instead of saying we are businesses, I think we should look for a similarity with churches or charities. (And NO, I don't worship Alpha Gamma Delta)

These groups also have expenses and insurance and are often incorporated, but you'd never hear them say, "Well, membership at that location is low, so we're going to close it and start again. And we'll make sure that none of the old members come to the new place because we don't want the reputation to follow us." Instead, maybe they change leadership at the location and give the group support to make sure that it offers what people actually need to be successful and grow.

Actually I know that in many areas, specifically Baltimore where I am from, there have been a number of parishes that have closed due to lack of membership. In some instances parishes have merged w/ others and both "structures" have been kept in use, but the parish communities have been united for #'s purposes sharing staff.
Also I know in many cities Fire houses have been closed for budget and population density reasons- like the churches not a popular move.

[UGAalum94]

Oh, yeah, I understand that churches and charities close locations, but they don't change the status of the people who they served at the previous locations. They are welcome to remain active members of the merged locations.

And I think that with churches and charities, they do have to weigh the lose of the tradition and support of closing a parish or location in the total financial location. No one really expects to dump the current parishioners and come back in the exact same location.

[CZAXOTerp]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Oh, yeah, I understand that churches and charities close locations, but they don't change the status of the people who they served at the previous locations. They are welcome to remain active members of the merged locations.

And I think that with churches and charities, they do have to weigh the lose of the tradition and support of closing a parish or location in the total financial location. No one really expects to dump the current parishioners and come back in the exact same location.

I don't think that a church or charity would ever turn anyone away- they might keep a particular person out of a leadership or public role however.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Did the reorganization of Alpha Gamma Delta at Ohio State and the reorganization of Kappa at Ga. Southern involve girls going alum while they were still on campus and restarting with a colony picked by an extension team? I'm curious how it could go down so differently than DePauw.

Yes. Again, I believe it was a chapter vote to close/reorganize and the Fraternity/House Board chose to reorganize because a new chapter facility had just been built and it made more sense, financially, to reorganize rather than just close.

Again, this is just my understanding of the situation. I cannot speak for that chapter or the Fraternity on actual happenings.

[UGAalum94]

The thread on the Ohio State reorganization in recruitment makes it look like it was a success. It sounds like that national officers worked hard to make sure that they knew exactly what the university would permit and what services they were ready to offer to the new alums.

And this if for FSUZeta, how flexible is total supposed to be? it would make sense to almost have a present figure that automatically adjusted with any changes in the system, like average chapter size, or something.

[AGDee]

Again, I think the key in how the older chapter members are treated when they are made alumnae makes a big difference. To say "We know you've worked so hard and we appreciate the efforts you've made so we want you to enjoy your last year here and not have to do all the work involved in a reorganization. These are the ways we'd love to have you stay involved with the Fraternity. Let us know how we can help you transition into one of these options" and then have actual options for them.. Junior Circle, local Alumnae Chapter, advisor positions at nearby chapters, etc. When you're a chapter of 12 on a campus where Total is 120 (like at our U Mich chapter was in 2000), it's not that fun. Every member is an officer and some hold two offices because there are more officer positions than members. You don't have enough members to have mixers with a fraternity. Everything is expensive because there aren't that many to share the costs. Everyone is required to live in the house all the time. You try to recruit with 12 women when there are 1000 PNMs. How do you even do that? You have no committees or everybody is on every committee. Every member has to participate in every Greek Week event. Building a Homecoming float to compare to theirs with 1/10th of the people? It's exhausting and frustrating.

NPC has a few ways they suggest that can be used to figure Total. They are also suggesting now that it be reviewed annually. Average chapter size is one suggested method. Another is setting Total at the number of the largest chapter at the time. I think there are two other methods but I don't remember them offhand. Personally, I think that if you take the average Quota for the last 4 years and multiply it by 4, that would be a good number, but that's not one of the methods. That would mean that a chapter that took quota and had good retention would be at Total.

It used to seem like such a fixed number that Panhellenic was always afraid to lower it because they might not be able to raise it again. When you reassure them that they can re-evaluate it in a year, they are more comfortable with it. If they have an unusually large recruitment, then they can increase Total. If things tank on campus and nobody goes through, it can be lowered. It's much more flexible than it used to be and I think that's a good thing.

We have a few campuses in my area where Total is way too high and every chapter is 20 women below Total. We have generally encouraged a lowering of Total rather than bugging the chapter about not being at Total. We do look at whether they are competitive with other chapters on campus. If chapter sizes are 23-29 and Total is 45, we know we're on target with the other groups. (University of Toronto is in that situation and just lowered Total for the first time in a decade even though no chapter had ever attained it!)

[UGAalum94]

Thanks for the answers AGDee. I think you are correct in that the heart of the reorg. issue is in how old members are treated. I appreciate the info. on total too.

Is there a reason why one should want total to be on the high end of things? I tend to think that total should be determined in a way that makes it easy to be a total, but I'm probably missing something. If you did the average quota for four years times four, you would have to have perfect retention or do COB, which isn't really a negative but wasn't the norm at the campus I attended. I guess if all chapters were in this same position, there'd be less stigma to COB. (And I guess more incentive for meeting release figures and getting quota additions, too.)

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Again, I think the key in how the older chapter members are treated when they are made alumnae makes a big difference. To say "We know you've worked so hard and we appreciate the efforts you've made so we want you to enjoy your last year here and not have to do all the work involved in a reorganization.

Dee, one of my chapter sister's younger sister joined AGD @ OSU and she loves it alot. Congrats on a successful effort

[honeychile]

I'm going to bottom line my feelings: right now, we have the generation of the children of the 1970's parents (who did not go greek) going through Recruitment. How many of these parents know Delta Zeta from Delta Gamma from Delta Delta Delta? It's all Greek to them, and they're more likely to say, "See, I knew those snobby Greeks were nasty!" rather than "Which GLO was that?"

There's been some very good interaction, good ideas here. I really like AGDee's idea of a junior circle, etc - but that might not work on every campus, nor do I have the answer to all things NPC. But it's much more productive to circle the wagons, instead of pointing fingers.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Can you do a re-organization or re-colonization without making the current girls go alum? (I mean, it doesn't seem like the words allow for it, but why couldn't you, in fact, start with the girls you had, rather than from scratch, if they were still going to be on campus anyway?)

I believe that's called an "expansion rush" - the national comes in and basically runs rush but keeps the current girls. They probably get some special dispensations from the CPH as far as recruiting, etc.

There's other things to consider where people are talking about the successful recolonizations. Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia Southern - these are big schools. There's a wide pool of women to choose from. The Greek system is prominent, but it doesn't "run" things, nor is it reviled.

[CZAXOTerp]

I know that on my campus chatper "reputations" lingered for a long time. We had several fraternities (PKA, ATO) and sororities (KKG, AGD, AZD) close just before I started and their reputations lingered on campus throughout my 4 years there.
All of the fraternities closed because of risk management issues, therefore socially they remained well thought of- I remember older sisters in my chapter speaking of them fondly & lamenting that we lost "good" houses to be have mixers with & be matched up w/ for Greek Week & Homecoming. KKG closed because of risk management issues & had been a top chapter. This reputation also lingered- they rented & eventually sold their house to KAT- allowing that chapter to take a bit of the KKG aura.
All of the fraternities closed because of risk management issues. While I was on campus PKA successfully re-colonized & shortly after I graduated ATO did the same. Both re-colonized chapters came back onto campus very strong because of their old reputations- their legends had lived on if you would. Other fraternities colonized at Maryland, but never reached the status of ATO & PKA. While I was on campus a few fraternities closed always from risk management issues, some of them have come back since then as well.
I don't know if it's campus or chapter policy, but if a chapter closed because of RM issues they could not try to come back for 4-5 years until all of the old members were off campus.
AGD & AZD closed because of numbers and this information lingered as well. AZD's (lovely) house still sits empty (they had rented it for a year to PKA during their re-colonization, but PKA could not have parties there, they still had pink carpet, etc.)

Maybe my campus has a very strong collective memory of chapters, but I think it would be very tough for a chapter to completely/immediately re-org/re-colonize there- espeically with deferred rush. According to Wikipedia ADPi closed 1985 and recolonized 1986- ADPi got AGD's house after AGD folded and I am sure that this helped them.

what I am saying is I don't know how successful an immediate re-org/re-colonization effort could be? How could nationals sweep in and re-program how everyone on campus thinks of a chapter?