Alleged sexual assault at Phi Kappa Psi house (WVU)

[Symbal]

Originally Posted by Firehouse

I have watched this type of thing close up from the other side. I have seen lives and careers destroyed on the whim of a false accusation, similar to the Duke case.

And I have seen the side of the victim, when faced with the accusation that she's lying, makes her wish she had never said a thing in the first place so she didn't have to deal with the grief.

Accusations like this are why many victims of sexual assault do not come forward!

Originally Posted by Firehouse

Based just on what we see in this brief article about Phi Kappa Psi at West Virginia, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask why the fraternity is being punished without any finding of guilt.

They haven't been investigated yet. Read the article. The alleged victim hasn't been questioned yet, and the fraternity suspended activities by themselves.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Symbal

And I have seen the side of the victim, when faced with the accusation that she's lying, makes her wish she had never said a thing in the first place so she didn't have to deal with the grief.

Accusations like this are why many victims of sexual assault do not come forward!

They haven't been investigated yet. Read the article. The alleged victim hasn't been questioned yet, and the fraternity suspended activities by themselves.

That's exactly it. Policy makers have decided that it is more important to create a safe environment for victims of sexual assault and rape to come forward than to accord the accused to confront their accusers in the public eye. There is still a serious social stigma attached to those who report sexual assaults and rapes. Yes, admittedly, some women do make false reports, but the judgment has been made that the court system should be able to sift through the false reports (as happened in the Duke case) while being able to punish those who are truly guilty.

[Coramoor]

I don't even know how much I should comment on this...but WVU is my campus and while I don't have a 1st hand account of what happened, I have a very accurate 2nd hand account.

The accusation is not baseless. Some things DID happen.

However...due to the position of the frat in question, their alumni, and the politics on campus I'm going to be very surprised if anything is done to the chapter or anymore information will be released.

I do know that given this situation for any other chapter on campus...they would be gone without a question.

[shinerbock]

I don't really think we should change the way the process works, although I do think there should be harsh penalties for false accusations (and sometimes this occurs). Sexual charges against men, contrary to what many would stay, are damning regardless of truth. This isn't the old days where people always side with the males. If you're accused or arrested of a sexual crime, even if dropped, that arrest record can be absolutely life ruining. We had a similar situation at my fraternity (didn't reach the level of a full police investigation), and needless to say the chapter was infuriated. In spite of the commonly held idea that fraternity guys are sexual prowlers, many chapters go out of their way to ensure this kind of stuff doesn't happen and also to avoid situations where accusations like this can arise. Thus, when unfounded allegations arise, it can be very frustrating and damaging.

This isn't to say that the girl here is lying, I'm just saying that poster's comments weren't completely without merit. The best thing to do in situations like this (in my opinion...this is what we did), is to immediately seek the truth. When the cops came to our house and this accusation arose, we went with the police to the hospital, where we told them we'd pay for whatever tests and treatment needed to be performed to find out the legitimacy of her claim. It ended up being false and she recanted, but even if it were true, we'd want to know as soon as possible. We're loyal to each other, but I and all others, to my knowledge, would refuse to harbor someone who did something like this.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I don't really think we should change the way the process works, although I do think there should be harsh penalties for false accusations (and sometimes this occurs). Sexual charges against men, contrary to what many would stay, are damning regardless of truth. This isn't the old days where people always side with the males. If you're accused or arrested of a sexual crime, even if dropped, that arrest record can be absolutely life ruining. We had a similar situation at my fraternity (didn't reach the level of a full police investigation), and needless to say the chapter was infuriated. In spite of the commonly held idea that fraternity guys are sexual prowlers, many chapters go out of their way to ensure this kind of stuff doesn't happen and also to avoid situations where accusations like this can arise. Thus, when unfounded allegations arise, it can be very frustrating and damaging.

This isn't to say that the girl here is lying, I'm just saying that poster's comments weren't completely without merit. The best thing to do in situations like this (in my opinion...this is what we did), is to immediately seek the truth. When the cops came to our house and this accusation arose, we went with the police to the hospital, where we told them we'd pay for whatever tests and treatment needed to be performed to find out the legitimacy of her claim. It ended up being false and she recanted, but even if it were true, we'd want to know as soon as possible. We're loyal to each other, but I and all others, to my knowledge, would refuse to harbor someone who did something like this.

Well said. I could not have put it better.

The only thing I would add is that I think the solution to this kind of situation is to have laws in place that require the police to withhold the name of the accused as well until a claim can be fully investigated- with the names of both parties being revealed at the same time at some point in the prosecution process. That of course assumes the accused has not fled or gone into hiding and could thus pose a forseeable public risk.

[Symbal]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

The only thing I would add is that I think the solution to this kind of situation is to have laws in place that require the police to withhold the name of the accused as well until a claim can be fully investigated- with the names of both parties being revealed at the same time at some point in the prosecution process. That of course assumes the accused has not fled or gone into hiding and could thus pose a forseeable public risk.

I disagree. It could pan out that a woman WAS assaulted and the man who did it to her was guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt), and was convicted, there are still people out there who would take it upon themselves to harass the victim. A lot of people still subscribe to the notion that she must have brought it on herself (too short of a skirt, drank too much, flirted too much, etc.). I asked many women that I know who have been sexually assaulted their opinion on this. They all described their identities being revealed to the general public as being raped again. The public is rather famous for not leaving well enough alone.

[Tom Earp]

Hopefully if the Alledged crime took place, it will be proven in a court of law by forensics and crime scene proof.

None of us were there so We do not really know what happened.

Yes, in cases like this, the Police are required to keep information confidential. It can only be required to be given to the defense as evidence from the defense or the prosicution to each other by law.

But, what is sad that if one person does this, then why is the whole Chapter deemed at fault? One member never makes a Chapter.

The Duke sitution is one example and the Alfred Un. of NY is another.

Two sides of the coin.

[EE-BO]

Your argument is compelling. I only know one woman who has confided in me that she was raped once. She told me this many years after it happened and a lot of her behaviors suddenly made sense as she explained the impact on her life. With that one brief insight, I got a chilling look- just a peek- at just how horrible the long term damage can be.

Trouble is- I am personally aware of 3 situations dealing with friends in my life who were falsely accused. In all 3 cases, the women admitted they faked the charge for a specific reason (self-serving- wanting to not get in trouble) before any charges were filed. In all 3 cases, the young men paid a personal price- one lost his appointment to West Point just because he had even been associated with such a charge. And none of the women were ever prosecuted or otherwise held accountable.

And that is the terrible balance to be struck.

Prosecuting false claimants is tricky I think for 2 reasons,

1. The legal system is already overburdened.
2. If a real victim knows she might be prosecuted if for some reason she is not believed, then it will be one more reason (and there are too many already) for a woman to suffer in silence and not report a rape at all.

I like that idea at a prosecutor's discretion (they already have it surely) if it seems warranted, but then again perhaps civil court is the answer. The man could sue for defamation if he thought it worth it.

But keeping both sides unidentified until a verdict is reached in the case just makes more sense to me. And then if the man is guilty, certainly release the information at that point.

And I could buy keeping the woman anonymous forever. You make sense there. My main hope is for there to be a way for the accused to have the same protections over such a serious charge which, by the nature of the crime, is more easily falsely made than many others.

[Symbal]

Originally Posted by Coramoor

However...due to the position of the frat in question, their alumni, and the politics on campus I'm going to be very surprised if anything is done to the chapter or anymore information will be released.

I do know that given this situation for any other chapter on campus...they would be gone without a question.

This saddens me...so much...you have no idea...

[WVU alpha phi]

Originally Posted by Coramoor

I don't even know how much I should comment on this...but WVU is my campus and while I don't have a 1st hand account of what happened, I have a very accurate 2nd hand account.

The accusation is not baseless. Some things DID happen.

However...due to the position of the frat in question, their alumni, and the politics on campus I'm going to be very surprised if anything is done to the chapter or anymore information will be released.

I do know that given this situation for any other chapter on campus...they would be gone without a question.

When I heard the accusations I was completely shocked. I was at the Phi Psi house that night this supposedly happened, and I'm just having a really hard time believing it. Those guys are my closest guy friends here, I know 3 of them who are being accused, and it's seriously just really difficult to believe (I know I'm going to take a lot of heat for this.)
There are certain fraternities here that I could DEFINITELY expect this from, and Phi Psi just isn't one of them. They've always been known as just really fun, nice guys. From what I've heard about the situation from first hand accounts, and from the action the girl's sorority has taken (extremely sketchy), I just don't think anything will come of this.
Coramoor makes a good point when he says the politics on this campus will prevent Phi Psi from being kicked off.. having the President of WVU as an alum on the Phi Psi chapter here makes me believe they'll keep them around.