Alleged sexual assault at Phi Kappa Psi house (WVU)

[shinerbock]

I don't really think we should change the way the process works, although I do think there should be harsh penalties for false accusations (and sometimes this occurs). Sexual charges against men, contrary to what many would stay, are damning regardless of truth. This isn't the old days where people always side with the males. If you're accused or arrested of a sexual crime, even if dropped, that arrest record can be absolutely life ruining. We had a similar situation at my fraternity (didn't reach the level of a full police investigation), and needless to say the chapter was infuriated. In spite of the commonly held idea that fraternity guys are sexual prowlers, many chapters go out of their way to ensure this kind of stuff doesn't happen and also to avoid situations where accusations like this can arise. Thus, when unfounded allegations arise, it can be very frustrating and damaging.

This isn't to say that the girl here is lying, I'm just saying that poster's comments weren't completely without merit. The best thing to do in situations like this (in my opinion...this is what we did), is to immediately seek the truth. When the cops came to our house and this accusation arose, we went with the police to the hospital, where we told them we'd pay for whatever tests and treatment needed to be performed to find out the legitimacy of her claim. It ended up being false and she recanted, but even if it were true, we'd want to know as soon as possible. We're loyal to each other, but I and all others, to my knowledge, would refuse to harbor someone who did something like this.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I don't really think we should change the way the process works, although I do think there should be harsh penalties for false accusations (and sometimes this occurs). Sexual charges against men, contrary to what many would stay, are damning regardless of truth. This isn't the old days where people always side with the males. If you're accused or arrested of a sexual crime, even if dropped, that arrest record can be absolutely life ruining. We had a similar situation at my fraternity (didn't reach the level of a full police investigation), and needless to say the chapter was infuriated. In spite of the commonly held idea that fraternity guys are sexual prowlers, many chapters go out of their way to ensure this kind of stuff doesn't happen and also to avoid situations where accusations like this can arise. Thus, when unfounded allegations arise, it can be very frustrating and damaging.

This isn't to say that the girl here is lying, I'm just saying that poster's comments weren't completely without merit. The best thing to do in situations like this (in my opinion...this is what we did), is to immediately seek the truth. When the cops came to our house and this accusation arose, we went with the police to the hospital, where we told them we'd pay for whatever tests and treatment needed to be performed to find out the legitimacy of her claim. It ended up being false and she recanted, but even if it were true, we'd want to know as soon as possible. We're loyal to each other, but I and all others, to my knowledge, would refuse to harbor someone who did something like this.

Well said. I could not have put it better.

The only thing I would add is that I think the solution to this kind of situation is to have laws in place that require the police to withhold the name of the accused as well until a claim can be fully investigated- with the names of both parties being revealed at the same time at some point in the prosecution process. That of course assumes the accused has not fled or gone into hiding and could thus pose a forseeable public risk.

[Symbal]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

The only thing I would add is that I think the solution to this kind of situation is to have laws in place that require the police to withhold the name of the accused as well until a claim can be fully investigated- with the names of both parties being revealed at the same time at some point in the prosecution process. That of course assumes the accused has not fled or gone into hiding and could thus pose a forseeable public risk.

I disagree. It could pan out that a woman WAS assaulted and the man who did it to her was guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt), and was convicted, there are still people out there who would take it upon themselves to harass the victim. A lot of people still subscribe to the notion that she must have brought it on herself (too short of a skirt, drank too much, flirted too much, etc.). I asked many women that I know who have been sexually assaulted their opinion on this. They all described their identities being revealed to the general public as being raped again. The public is rather famous for not leaving well enough alone.

[Tom Earp]

Hopefully if the Alledged crime took place, it will be proven in a court of law by forensics and crime scene proof.

None of us were there so We do not really know what happened.

Yes, in cases like this, the Police are required to keep information confidential. It can only be required to be given to the defense as evidence from the defense or the prosicution to each other by law.

But, what is sad that if one person does this, then why is the whole Chapter deemed at fault? One member never makes a Chapter.

The Duke sitution is one example and the Alfred Un. of NY is another.

Two sides of the coin.

[EE-BO]

Your argument is compelling. I only know one woman who has confided in me that she was raped once. She told me this many years after it happened and a lot of her behaviors suddenly made sense as she explained the impact on her life. With that one brief insight, I got a chilling look- just a peek- at just how horrible the long term damage can be.

Trouble is- I am personally aware of 3 situations dealing with friends in my life who were falsely accused. In all 3 cases, the women admitted they faked the charge for a specific reason (self-serving- wanting to not get in trouble) before any charges were filed. In all 3 cases, the young men paid a personal price- one lost his appointment to West Point just because he had even been associated with such a charge. And none of the women were ever prosecuted or otherwise held accountable.

And that is the terrible balance to be struck.

Prosecuting false claimants is tricky I think for 2 reasons,

1. The legal system is already overburdened.
2. If a real victim knows she might be prosecuted if for some reason she is not believed, then it will be one more reason (and there are too many already) for a woman to suffer in silence and not report a rape at all.

I like that idea at a prosecutor's discretion (they already have it surely) if it seems warranted, but then again perhaps civil court is the answer. The man could sue for defamation if he thought it worth it.

But keeping both sides unidentified until a verdict is reached in the case just makes more sense to me. And then if the man is guilty, certainly release the information at that point.

And I could buy keeping the woman anonymous forever. You make sense there. My main hope is for there to be a way for the accused to have the same protections over such a serious charge which, by the nature of the crime, is more easily falsely made than many others.

[Tom Earp]

? Me or another poster?

Keeping it secreted is fine and usually is because of the circumstances of the alledged crime. Now, it is up to the CSI, forensics and the court to make the decission. It as I said only one person, not the whole Chapter uless it was gang rape.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

? Me or another poster?

Keeping it secreted is fine and usually is because of the circumstances of the alledged crime. Now, it is up to the CSI, forensics and the court to make the decission. It as I said only one person, not the whole Chapter uless it was gang rape.

Sorry Tom,

I was replying to Symbal on that.

But to get to your post, do the police keep the accused's name secret at first at their discretion or as a matter of policy? At what point is it revealed? Also, is this kind of policy determined at the department, city or state level?

I have seen this approach in action since in the 2 incidents I mentioned where there was press coverage the accused was not revealed, but clearly it is not standard policy around the country as the Duke case indicates.

(Sorry for all the questions, but you are a police officer- so if you don't know, then noone else does!)

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Sorry Tom,

I was replying to Symbal on that.

But to get to your post, do the police keep the accused's name secret at first at their discretion or as a matter of policy? At what point is it revealed? Also, is this kind of policy determined at the department, city or state level?

I have seen this approach in action since in the 2 incidents I mentioned where there was press coverage the accused was not revealed, but clearly it is not standard policy around the country as the Duke case indicates.

(Sorry for all the questions, but you are a police officer- so if you don't know, then noone else does!)

It is kept secret because of an on going investigation and the rights of the alledged person who said there was an alledge rape. That is Department and District Attorney policy in KC Ks. I am sure this will be the policy of any Department. I cannot say what state or federal policy is for sure, but would assume it to be the same.

The initial protection of the person filing charges should be held in cognito until charges are filed and goes to court.

But as can be seen in the Duke case, it was a fiasco and I hope this so called DA is dis barred, drawn and quartered.

One does not keep evidence from the leagal members of eithr side. That too is the law of right to know for prosicution and defense.


Speaking as an ex law officer only! I do not think times and the law have changed that much though!