this girls parents should be shot.....

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The girl can't get to the cupboards... she couldn't walk. There's no excuse.

Did you not read the part of how people with this disease must be kept on an extremely low calorie diet just to stay at a normal weight? And did you not read the part about how people with this disease can not turn off the hunger pains?

We do not know if this is what this child has, but if it is.. the blame shouldn't go to the parents.

[James]

The girl has been in the hospital Blueangel, and has responded to a forced diet. We would have ehard if she had this disease.

If we on Greekchat can think of it, the doctors are not going to overlook it.

[James]

For those not familiar with PWS.


http://www.thearc.org/faqs/pwsynd.html

What is Prader-Willi syndrome (PWS)?

PWS is a complex genetic disorder that includes short stature, mental retardation or learning disabilities, incomplete sexual development, characteristic behavior problems, low muscle tone, and an involuntary urge to eat constantly, which, coupled with a reduced need for calories, leads to obesity.

Does the eating problem associated with PWS begin at birth?

No, newborns with PWS are typically described as "floppy" and are unable to suck well enough to get sufficient nutrients -- due to the low muscle tone (hypotonia). Often they must be fed through a tube for several months after birth, until muscle control improves. Sometime in the following years, usually by preschool age, children with PWS develop an increased interest in food and quickly gain excessive weight if calories are not restricted.

Why do people who have PWS eat so much?

People with PWS have a flaw in the part of their brain (the hypothalamus) that determines hunger and satiety (fullness). These people never feel full enough, so they have a continuous urge to eat. To compound this problem, people with PWS need considerably fewer calories than normal to maintain an appropriate weight. The obesity that results is the major cause of illness and death in this disorder. As in the general population, obesity in PWS can cause high blood pressure, respiratory difficulties, diabetes and other problems.

Can anything be done to control the eating?

Unfortunately, no appetite suppressant has worked consistently for people with PWS. Most must be on an extremely low-calorie diet all their lives and must have their environment designed so that they have very limited access to food. For example, many families have to lock the kitchen or the cabinets and refrigerator.

it possible for people with PWS to lead normal lives?

People with PWS can accomplish many of the things their "normal" peers do -- attend school, enjoy community activities, get jobs, and even move away from home. However, they need a lot of help. School children with PWS are likely to need special education and related services, such as speech and occupational therapy. In community, work and residential settings, adolescents and adults often need special assistance to learn and carry out responsibilities and to get along with others. In all settings, people with PWS need around-the-clock food supervision. As adults, most affected individuals do best in a special group home for people with PWS, where food access can be restricted without interfering with those who do not need such restriction. Although in the past many died in adolescence or young adulthood, it is thought that prevention of obesity will allow a person with PWS to live a normal lifespan.

Does early diagnosis help?

Early diagnosis of Prader-Willi syndrome gives parents an opportunity to manage their child's diet and avoid obesity and its related problems from the start. Since infants and young children with PWS typically have developmental delays in all areas, diagnosis may facilitate a family's access to critical early intervention services and help identify areas of need or risk. Diagnosis also makes it possible for families to get information and support from professionals and other families who are dealing with the syndrome.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Did you not read the part of how people with this disease must be kept on an extremely low calorie diet just to stay at a normal weight? And did you not read the part about how people with this disease can not turn off the hunger pains?

We do not know if this is what this child has, but if it is.. the blame shouldn't go to the parents.

She 5 years old. She cant exactly roll in the kitchen and make herself an omlette and a few dozen hot pockets whenever she pleases. Her parents are the ones who make her meals - therefore the blame SHOULD be on them.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

She 5 years old. She cant exactly roll in the kitchen and make herself an omlette and a few dozen hot pockets whenever she pleases. Her parents are the ones who make her meals - therefore the blame SHOULD be on them.

HOWEVER-- With PW Syndrome, a child must be put on an EXTREMELY limited low calorie diet. Feeding her normally will make a child obese.

Have you ever skipped a few meals and felt what it's like to have hunger pains? To have such a need to eat that it's painful? That's what people with PW feel like all the time.

Now, imagine you have a child with PW who is in pain all the time because she always feels like she's being starved. Then add to that -- that you must only feed her a few hundred calories a day. Do you realize how difficult that can be for a parent?

If the parents are just over feeding her, and nothing is medically wrong with the child.. then yes, I agree.. that is abuse. However, if she has PW or another disorder, then I wouldn't be so quick to put blame on the parents.

[Drolefille]

If she has a disorder, the parents STILL let her get this heavy. You'd think they'd have put her on a reduce calorie diet before now. But no, gotta give their little rolling angel as much as she wants. Letting your child get that heavy without intervention, disorder or no, is the parents fault.

Placing blame on a disorder is just one more instance of people failing to take responsibility for themselves and, in this case, their children. It's not like she was slightly overweight. She ROLLED. A doctor would have picked up on it before she needed admittance to a hospital, if they'd actually gone and seen one.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If she has a disorder, the parents STILL let her get this heavy. You'd think they'd have put her on a reduce calorie diet before now. But no, gotta give their little rolling angel as much as she wants. Letting your child get that heavy without intervention, disorder or no, is the parents fault.

Placing blame on a disorder is just one more instance of people failing to take responsibility for themselves and, in this case, their children. It's not like she was slightly overweight. She ROLLED. A doctor would have picked up on it before she needed admittance to a hospital, if they'd actually gone and seen one.

I think the reason I have more sympathy for parents of children suffering from this disorder (and we don't even know if she has it-- but assuming she does) is because I had a child with it in one of my judo classes. I had a "project smile" class for children and adults with mental and physical challenges.

One of the girls had this disorder, and she was very obese. Her parents put her in my class hoping the physical exercise would help. We talked at length about her problem, and her mother was in tears explaining to me about how difficult it was to withhold food from her daughter who was in constant physical distress. Picture feeling like you haven't eaten for three days.. and picture what it would feel like 24 hours a day. THAT's what these kids feel like all the time.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by blueangel

I think the reason I have more sympathy for parents of children suffering from this disorder (and we don't even know if she has it-- but assuming she does) is because I had a child with it in one of my judo classes. I had a "project smile" class for children and adults with mental and physical challenges.

One of the girls had this disorder, and she was very obese. Her parents put her in my class hoping the physical exercise would help. We talked at length about her problem, and her mother was in tears explaining to me about how difficult it was to withhold food from her daughter who was in constant physical distress. Picture feeling like you haven't eaten for three days.. and picture what it would feel like 24 hours a day. THAT's what these kids feel like all the time.

That's understandable, but that mother was trying. This child's parents had to have been neglegent in some way. I have sympathy for people who suffer from disorders, but not for people who recklessly endanger their child. Even if she has the disorder, her parents were clearly not trying as her weight dropped very quickly upon hospitalization.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

That's understandable, but that mother was trying. This child's parents had to have been neglegent in some way. I have sympathy for people who suffer from disorders, but not for people who recklessly endanger their child. Even if she has the disorder, her parents were clearly not trying as her weight dropped very quickly upon hospitalization.

OK, I see your point.

[James]

Blueangel. Stop Stop Stop.

You are seeking to redefine the argument on the basis of an unproven/unsuggested presuppositon. You have not shown that there is even the smallest chance this kid has PW syndrome.

Nor have you made any reference to the myriad other symptoms that a PW-child would be blatantly manifesting all her life.

You persist in defending these parents for no discernible reason. Do they pay you?

Also, if the child had a medical problem, the parents would be even more at fault for not treating the child properly.

If they have just overfed an otherwise healthy kid . . that makes them simply stupid.

If they have failed to treat an underlying medical condition . . . that makes them stupid and malicious.

To change the situation a bit, if the child had some bacterial infection that made her fat, and required life long medication, I doubt you would be sympathetic to the parents if they didn't give her the medication because the child complained and she had uncomfortable side effects.

Oh, and hasn't the child lost a lot of weight? From restricting her calories?

Originally Posted by blueangel

HOWEVER-- With PW Syndrome, a child must be put on an EXTREMELY limited low calorie diet. Feeding her normally will make a child obese.

Have you ever skipped a few meals and felt what it's like to have hunger pains? To have such a need to eat that it's painful? That's what people with PW feel like all the time.

Now, imagine you have a child with PW who is in pain all the time because she always feels like she's being starved. Then add to that -- that you must only feed her a few hundred calories a day. Do you realize how difficult that can be for a parent?

If the parents are just over feeding her, and nothing is medically wrong with the child.. then yes, I agree.. that is abuse. However, if she has PW or another disorder, then I wouldn't be so quick to put blame on the parents.

[Kevlar281]

Anyone find it funny that there is an M&M's banner ad?

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by James

Blueangel. Stop Stop Stop.

You are seeking to redefine the argument on the basis of an unproven/unsuggested presuppositon. You have not shown that there is even the smallest chance this kid has PW syndrome.

Nor have you made any reference to the myriad other symptoms that a PW-child would be blatantly manifesting all her life.

You persist in defending these parents for no discernible reason. Do they pay you?

Also, if the child had a medical problem, the parents would be even more at fault for not treating the child properly.

If they have just overfed an otherwise healthy kid . . that makes them simply stupid.

If they have failed to treat an underlying medical condition . . . that makes them stupid and malicious.

To change the situation a bit, if the child had some bacterial infection that made her fat, and required life long medication, I doubt you would be sympathetic to the parents if they didn't give her the medication because the child complained and she had uncomfortable side effects.

Oh, and hasn't the child lost a lot of weight? From restricting her calories?

James... are you doing some selective reading here? Each time I mentioned PW syndrome in relation to this child, I was careful to say that we don't know if she has it. I think people are too quick to judge other parents when they don't have all of the facts.

Further, when Drolefille made her last post to me I said, "I see your point."

Now, what is your problem?

[James]

Blueangel, review the post order, your agreement with drolefile came after my post. I don't believe I have commented about your genetic disease argument since then.

And yes you did mention that the child may not have the disease, however again go back and read your posts.

You kept countering other people's contention that the parents were at fault by using the child's theoretical and unproven disease state. . . her not having it was an after thought.

Also, you kept presenting that even though the counter argument was that the disase was ultimately irrelevant to the parental responsibility to STOP over feeding.

So you persisted in a flawed argument that was based more on emotion than anything else.

Originally Posted by blueangel

James... are you doing some selective reading here? Each time I mentioned PW syndrome in relation to this child, I was careful to say that we don't know if she had it. I think people are too quick to judge other parents when they don't have all of the facts.

Further, when Drolefille made her last post to me I said, "I see your point."

Now, what is your problem?

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by James

Blueangel, review the post order, your agreement with drolefile came after my post. I don't believe I have commented about your genetic disease argument since then.

And yes you did mention that the child may not have the disease, however again go back and read your posts.

You kept countering other people's contention that the parents were at fault by using the child's theoretical and unproven disease state. . . her not having it was an after thought.

Also, you kept presenting that even though the counter argument was that the disase was ultimately irrelevant to the parental responsibility to STOP over feeding.

So you persisted in a flawed argument that was based more on emotion than anything else.

Unless you're in the parent's shoes, you have no idea what it's raising a child with PWS.

My point is that we shouldn't judge when we don't know all the facts. Perhaps the parents are at fault. WE DON'T KNOW!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by blueangel

I was careful to say that we don't know if she has it. I think people are too quick to judge other parents when they don't have all of the facts.

So does PW syndrome go undetected for years before it shows up on tests or something? Are the doctors and family not releasing this syndrome info to the public because they'd rather the parents be blamed or something? Or is it just a matter of inconsistent results of the hospitals' tests like what often happens with Lupus?

As already stated, this little girl has been to hospitals, has had television segments dedicated to her, and has a website. No mention of any disorder. However, there was a televised story on another little girl about a year ago who had this disorder, I believe. It was documented and that's the first thing they mentioned when the television show aired her story. Maybe this is the same little girl, I don't know.

The good thing is that she HAS lost 100 lbs. I hope she can make up for the damage the extra weight did.