UCF Sig Ep suspended

[strubbe]

Originally Posted by XiLove_Epsilon

I think that it is completely sad that fraternities are getting kicked off campuses nation wide. In fact, I think it's pathetic. I realize that there are some things that go too far, but some things are just tradition. We just had a chapter get in trouble with their nationals for having their pledges go and retrieve composites from each fraternity. They were split into groups and this has been tradition for as far back as anyone can remember...things like this is just fun, tradition, and should be left alone by nationals and the media alike. I realize that getting your pledges unbelievably drunk is not the best idea, but sometimes (if no one is getting truely hurt), you've just got to leave well enough alone. Greeks are an exclusive part of universities for a reason.

Have you bothered to read some of the crap that has been going on? Organizations get kicked off for a reason. Hazing is illegal, and for good reason. The HQ of these organizations are finally coming to their senses and are trying to put a stop to it, not only to save face, but to potentially save the lives of the young men/women looking to join their organizations. I agree that some acts are harmless in nature, but who's to say that breaking into another organization's house to take composites won't lead into something more serious?

Just my opinion.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by XiLove_Epsilon

We just had a chapter get in trouble with their nationals for having their pledges go and retrieve composites from each fraternity. They were split into groups and this has been tradition for as far back as anyone can remember...things like this is just fun, tradition, and should be left alone by nationals and the media alike. I realize that getting your pledges unbelievably drunk is not the best idea, but sometimes (if no one is getting truely hurt), you've just got to leave well enough alone. Greeks are an exclusive part of universities for a reason.

First of all, the pledges were committing theft and vandalism by taking the composites. That is a crime. If organizations are now beginning to recognize that is unacceptable for the supposed elite of the university to commit breaking and entering, then I applaud their efforts to control crime. Because even though it is a tradition, that doesn't make it right or acceptable. Genital mutilation of young women is a long-held tradition in some parts of Africa that is sanctioned by those parts of Africa and respected village elders; does this mean it is right? I realize that theft and mutilation are not the same, but you invoked the name of "tradition."

"If no one is truly getting hurt"-- people are actually getting hurt and we must draw the line somewhere. If Greeks truly embody the best of campus scholarship, leadership and potential, then we must begin to hold ourselves to a higher standard and conduct ourselves as role models, not anarchists who don't hold with the laws and policies of our governing organizations, universities and local/state/federal laws.

Hazing hurts. People get hurt. People die. People get scarred for life, emotionally, physically, even financially. Hazing effects the hazers, the hazed, and their familes. It may start off innocently, but things have a tendency to go wrong very quickly. Hazing interrupts lives, and can go on to have major effects-- do you want to be sued and have your future wages garnished because one of your new members tripped and crippled herself in your harmless blindfolding game and chose to retaliate? It happens and this is one way hazing can affect you, even if you were not directly involved. We may live in a PC, lawsuit happy society, but that can't really be changed. So rather complain about being PC, why not make the best of it and create new traditions that are legal, safe and satisfy everyone's needs?

Alcohol isn't the only killer-- a freshman fraternity pledge died from an overdose of WATER not too long ago. Yes, that's right. He died from water intoxication. I'm sure it sounded like a fun idea and safe to the brothers who thought of it. They're serving jail sentences now and the young man's family and friends will never be the same. There was serious talk of closing the school's Greek System. Not such a great idea after all. Think about that the next time you dress your pledges up in fairy wings, have them drink mystery concoctions, send them on "quests," or require anything of them that hasn't been approved in your new member education plans. You can still have fun, establish traditions and bonds and form memories, but there is a right and responsible way to do it. Act like adults and the community, media and your peers will treat you like adults, instead of coming in and closing you down because you decided to act like children... or worse yet, like common criminals.

Sorry you don't feel the same way. Your nationals has embraced this policy, but if you don't agree with your own sorority policies, you should really reconsider your oath and pledge to your organization.

Originally Posted by adpiucf

Sorry you don't feel the same way. Your nationals has embraced this policy, but if you don't agree with your own sorority policies, you should really reconsider your oath and pledge to your organization.

Best post of the day.

[Tom Earp]

The problem is also, not just Fraternitys, but also Sororitys and that is the problem.

It is a greek wide problem.

We as Greeks are our own worst enemies and wonder why!

People and schools are getting tired of seeing this type of thing (hazing) in the media and wonder WHY!

There used to be no rules or regulations about hazing. But it seems to becomiong more pronounced and reported.

That is why Nationals, Schools. and the public are more concerned.

"Dad/Mom to Son/Daughter, I do not want you joining a group like these Greeks!" " You could die, you will not make your grades"!

[XiLove_Epsilon]

Did you ever stop to think that the fraternities knew that the girls were going to come take their composites and that they pretty much just gave the girls a hard time and then handed them over? Or that these girls have the option to not do it? I'm not saying that fraternities or sororities should be allowed to shove anything down anyone's throat, but there is always the choice of the individual, and if these individuals can not find it in themselves to say no, then they are not greek material anyway. We need strong leaders, not followers, and not all tradition is bad. We've got schools like the one in Florida that have problems with it, but we've also got schools that don't. Should their traditions be sacraficed because of the mistake made by others? No. The problem we're having is that there is too much involvement by the media. Greek life is exclusive for a reason...and the problems we have should stay within the family. Too many chapters suffer because of the mistake of one, and that is completely unfair to everyone. I'm sure that every chapter has some tradition that could be considered hazing, that the chapter that has it, does not think about it as hazing. I'm all about NOT hazing our pledges, but when a scavenger hunt is considered hazing haven't we gone too far? What about the rituals? What if the new memebers have to dress up in certain "costumes" or wear masks or whatever, or the initiated members can't shower, or shave, or whatever for a certain ritual...is that too hazing, or is it just ritual? Pretty soon we're going to have nothing left to our chapters because someone, somewhere will consider it all hazing and we will be left with nothing but a name, some letters and memories. The point I'm trying to make, is that we need to really take a look at what we all stand for...we're a family, we're love, we're greek...these hazing incidents should NOT happen, but somewhere we've got to take care of our own. Why aren't we helping the chapters that are in trouble, giving them alternate ways to take care of their pledges, actually put people in there to HELP them instead of kicking them off campuses, and putting them on probation with no one to give them any resources? I just believe that we are going about this in all the wrong ways...i'm not saying ignore hazing, or that it's right, i'm saying that we need to fix it instead of just hacking every chapter we possibly can, because all we are doing that way is giving those who are against greeks, for whatever reason they hate us, some more bullets. What we need to do is have a facilitator come in, clean up the chapter, and see who is truly detrimental to that chapter on that campus. There has to be at least a few good apples in every bunch that truely want to be there, that didn't take part in all of this, and that have a true heart for the chapter they are in. Ridding the campus of every one of them takes away any opportunity they have to help themselves with a better name or a new reputation. If you are not willing to take a true look at what we could do to HELP instead of KILL a chapter, then I suggest that YOU take a look at what you pledged and your oath and consider why you exist in the greek community.

When I was a sophomore in HS, I took Intro to Word Processing in the Fall. In the Spring, I took Intro to Computers (PC Crap). That was over ten years ago.

Both semesters I learned that Enter/Return was your friend.

HOLY HELL MOSES TEN COMMANDMENTS!!!

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by XiLove_Epsilon

If you are not willing to take a true look at what we could do to HELP instead of KILL a chapter, then I suggest that YOU take a look at what you pledged and your oath and consider why you exist in the greek community.

You haven't been a member of your sorority long enough to observe this, but actually every one of the national organizations have ongoing meetings with individual chapters (IE: Traveling consultants, district workshops, advisers, etc.) to maintain good chapter health, and provide support to chapters (international directors, workshops, probationary terms to meet and paperwork to file) who have fallen off track in order to help lift them back up. Sometimes, despite everyone's best efforts, the chapter has been permanently derailed and cannot be helped. It is best for all those concerned, from the collegiate members of that chapter the parent organization and the university, for it to close. These ongoing touches also help ensure that members are safe, which means sometimes modifying traditions. A chapter is never arbitrarily closed. It is the result of when consistent activity and many, many opportunities and hands to help it back up have failed.

By all means, chapter business should remain chapter business. But one person's actions can and have brought down chapters before and will continue to do so. The consequences of your actions, good or bad, are felt by every member of your organization. This is the byproduct of becoming part of the organization and wearing the letters of which we are so very proud. One bad action can bring down everyone, which is why there are measures in place to protect these organizations from members who would otherwise seek to cling to "tradition." And as has been stated, if we are to survive as a Greek community we need to keep up with the times. Something that was tradition 10, 20 even 30 or as early as 5 years ago may now be an illegal act TODAY. And we must focus on today.

I know of no ritual which prevents members from keeping themselves clean... I wonder if perhaps you have been misled. The bottom line is that many of our organizations have existed for well over 100 years. We remain alive because we keep current with what is happening in the world. We are run by a dedicated and extensive team of alumni who in their real lives are working professionals and committed volunteers-- lawyers, doctors, teachers, accountants, consultants, you name it. They have seen the big picture and the big picture is that we will give the collegiate chapters the resources they need to succeed. But when the chapter continually snubs its nose at that help and acts like a spoiled child who disregards the rules, that chapter is a liability to the health of the rest of the chapters and it will not last very long. I am sure that if a chapter of your sorority on another campus acted in a manner that would threaten to close ALL chapters of your sorority, you would see it otherwise. This is a reality.

It isn't the media's fault that Greeks have a negative reputation. It is the insular ideas that an illegal act is just a harmless prank.

I encourage you to get involved with your sorority's leadership to see the big picture. Right now, you are looking through the perspective of a new member. There is a lot of good you can accomplish.

[Drolefille]

^ Word.

[XiLove_Epsilon]

Your reply (adpiucf) I actually appreciate...I'm not a new member, I'm actually Ritual Chair and Song Leader of my chapter...we just don't have this stuff around here and what we do have isn't anything to ever be alarmed about. To all of you, it may seem like we're disregaurding nationals on our campus, but when when you are as small of a campus as we are we just don't have these problems in such a high amount, therefore it is extrememly difficult for me to see the benefit of destroying chapters. I know that you said that some of their nationals comes in and tries to help, but that rarely happens here. You either make it or you don't. There is a large difference in small universities and large ones...I've been to both, I've seen it. I think we have it better here. I just wish more people could appreciate instead of demeaning other chapters. It is not our job to bad mouth them all. It seems ridiculous that we would call ourselves greek...family...and do this to each other.

[adpiucf]

I think what you are taking offense to then, is our discussion of these events online? I can appreciate your concern. Take it with a grain of salt-- by discussing these events with other Greeks from all across North America, we can better alert one another to know what is happening with our fellow brothers and sisters. And we can take measures to not allow the same things to occur in our own communities, as can be the case when traditions outlive their usefulness and safety. We aren't exposing any chapter secrets or incidents that are not already a matter of public record.

I applaud your efforts to maintain discretion, and that is certainly something that you should do if there is a chapter incident. In this case, our discussion has come from public attention. It is a matter of public record if an organization has been suspended, and the circumstances surrounding it. All nationals receive national publications from their HQ, as well as IFC/NPC dealing with new laws, proposed legislation and legal outcomes regarding hazing, housing, individual health and wellness, leadership development and more. Exec board usually receives these and is more in the loop on the big picture outside of the university. This is in addition to the general media at large.

I'm also sure that each of your nationals on campus has a traveling consultant pop in once a year as standard practice. They assess the chapter, interview the officers and members, observe and make recommendations. Sometimes they see what they are allowed to see; other times they can really make a difference. That is why it is so important to have alumni/ae advisers and to attend trainings in your district/region with other chapters and alumnae. These opportunties exist for all nationals.

I think it is great you have taken on a few roles within your chapter and that you are passionate about your chapter. Ritual and Song Chairs can do a lot to boost chapter morale and a sense of history and responsibility. I definitely encourage you to seek out an executive board position when the time comes. You will learn so much in a year from the experience and give so much back, as well.

[XiLove_Epsilon]

I really do understand that these are already in the media and that these issues are useful to other chapters, but it just seems like a lot of this is just over exposed...discussing what happens in these chapters isn't really our business, and this doesn't even seem like discussion. It's just trash talk from a lot of people who want to send out an opinion just to say something. I mean, if we have to actually alert other chapters that we could get in trouble for forcing a group of students to drink large amounts of alcohol then we're just kinda dumb, aren't we? Aren't these things that we already know? Isn't this why we already go to alcohol training? We're not discussing things here, or alerting anyone...we're just talking trash about other chapters who have had problems. That just destroys any sense of loyaty we have. I mean, I realy do think that there are somethings that are traditions that should just leave well enough alone because without traditions and rituals you die...not every chapter takes it to the extreme and we need to realize that. I just can't stand so many people badmouthing their brothers and sisters...especially one's the don't know. And really, hazing isn't even as bad as what people make it out to be. There are extreme cases and they happen, but if people were to take a look at the number of greek chapters across the world and compare it to the number of severe hazing incidents it really wouldn't be that high from what I've seen. I just think that people take a lot of this too far...and it gives us more death and grief then if we would have just supported our brothers and sisters. That is what we are here for is family...and wouldn't you stand behind family no matter what? I would. I understand your position, but please try to understand mine.

[Drolefille]

If they KNEW that, there wouldn't be deaths due to forcing people to drink large amounts of alcohol now would we?

There is ZERO excuse for pledges dying. NONE. You don't get a pass on getting talked about just because you're in a GLO (or my GLO).

No one here thinks that every Greek is bad. But WTH are we supposed to do? Pat XYZ on the back when a pledge dies and say "eh, you meant well" ????

[Tom Earp]

No Stuff. Where have you been?

It is wrong, it is wrong and will be wrong and stupid on their parts!

If they as new possible members are good enough to be brought to the GLO why debase them?

Teach them about your GLO and lead them, not s**T on them!

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

You haven't been a member of your sorority long enough to observe this, but actually every one of the national organizations have ongoing meetings with individual chapters (IE: Traveling consultants, district workshops, advisers, etc.) to maintain good chapter health, and provide support to chapters (international directors, workshops, probationary terms to meet and paperwork to file) who have fallen off track in order to help lift them back up. Sometimes, despite everyone's best efforts, the chapter has been permanently derailed and cannot be helped. It is best for all those concerned, from the collegiate members of that chapter the parent organization and the university, for it to close. These ongoing touches also help ensure that members are safe, which means sometimes modifying traditions. A chapter is never arbitrarily closed. It is the result of when consistent activity and many, many opportunities and hands to help it back up have failed.

By all means, chapter business should remain chapter business. But one person's actions can and have brought down chapters before and will continue to do so. The consequences of your actions, good or bad, are felt by every member of your organization. This is the byproduct of becoming part of the organization and wearing the letters of which we are so very proud. One bad action can bring down everyone, which is why there are measures in place to protect these organizations from members who would otherwise seek to cling to "tradition." And as has been stated, if we are to survive as a Greek community we need to keep up with the times. Something that was tradition 10, 20 even 30 or as early as 5 years ago may now be an illegal act TODAY. And we must focus on today.

I know of no ritual which prevents members from keeping themselves clean... I wonder if perhaps you have been misled. The bottom line is that many of our organizations have existed for well over 100 years. We remain alive because we keep current with what is happening in the world. We are run by a dedicated and extensive team of alumni who in their real lives are working professionals and committed volunteers-- lawyers, doctors, teachers, accountants, consultants, you name it. They have seen the big picture and the big picture is that we will give the collegiate chapters the resources they need to succeed. But when the chapter continually snubs its nose at that help and acts like a spoiled child who disregards the rules, that chapter is a liability to the health of the rest of the chapters and it will not last very long. I am sure that if a chapter of your sorority on another campus acted in a manner that would threaten to close ALL chapters of your sorority, you would see it otherwise. This is a reality.

It isn't the media's fault that Greeks have a negative reputation. It is the insular ideas that an illegal act is just a harmless prank.

I encourage you to get involved with your sorority's leadership to see the big picture. Right now, you are looking through the perspective of a new member. There is a lot of good you can accomplish.

Very good posting.

[alphagamgirlie]

Something dealing with Greek Row... the new movie Amanda Bynes movie Sydney White is going to be filming some scenes at UCF/Rollins/Winter Park/Downtown Orlando, among them is at the old UCF Pike house...They sort of made it look nice like a room is all pinkish stuff now (of course I think we all know how Pike's house is unlivable unless a LOT of $$$$$$ is put in to fix it).
Can't tell ya'll anything else coz it's pretty much under wraps, so check out the movie when comes out in 2008 =)