Randolph-Macon Woman's going co-ed...Many Students and Alumnae not happy

[Tom Earp]

I guess it really means, live with change or die without it.

More and more Womens Colleges are changing or they will wither and die.

Now, where would that put the Alums?

[lovelyivy84]

As a development/alumni relations professional, this makes me feel much, much better about my office, lol.

[alum]

There are so many single-sex schools that have had to go co-ed. Women-only colleges outnumber men-only colleges by a good number. I have heard that a lot of the Randolph girls will be transferring to SBC, Hollins, and MB (all in that area of VA). Agnes Scott is aggressively recruiting R-MWC students and has a page devoted specifically for them on their admissions website.

I do find it interesting that some of the remaining women's colleges are among the strongest LACs in the country (Wellesley, Smith, Mt. Holyoke...) while the 2 remaining male colleges (Hampden-Sydney (also in that south-central area of VA) and Wabash (IN) are not attracting the same caliber of young men.

Apparently R-MWC used to have several NPC orgs. While not unprecedented, this was somewhat unusual for a women's college. I wonder if they will be allowed to/ be interested in recolonizing once the guys get there?

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by alum

I do find it interesting that some of the remaining women's colleges are among the strongest LACs in the country (Wellesley, Smith, Mt. Holyoke...) while the 2 remaining male colleges (Hampden-Sydney (also in that south-central area of VA) and Wabash (IN) are not attracting the same caliber of young men.

Apparently R-MWC used to have several NPC orgs. While not unprecedented, this was somewhat unusual for a women's college. I wonder if they will be allowed to/ be interested in recolonizing once the guys get there?

On the first point that's certainly true. I think that it's because for some reason, an all-women's college is more appealing to women than an all-men's college is appealing to men. I guess guys just like us. I know that the primary reason W&L went co-ed is that admissions numbers were dropping and along with that the academic... er, strength of the student body was also dropping. Hampden-Sydney college is sort of infamous in the region. It was a fun place to visit but I think its academics may be suffering to some degree as well.

I know that a lot of the women's colleges in the area used to have NPC groups. Pi Phi had two such chapters, one of which was at Hollins. I forget where the other was. Mary Baldwin definitely had NPC groups as well, but these (like the others, I believe) in the first third or so of the 20th cent. They were certainly long-gone by the time my mom got there. I had some friends from MBC in undergrad who would have been interested in Greek Life but it's definitely not allowed there now by any means! I know that at least part of the rationale was "we're all sisters here;" it's meant to discourage cliques I think. Also, if I remember correctly, many of the women's colleges established student government at the same time they banned Greek Life.

[alum]

I certainly can't speak for the success of any women's colleges but as usual I have a couple of opinions.

I think part of the success of Wellesley is that it has always been loosely connected with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Wellesley College (a stunning campus in its own right) is in a gorgeous Boston suburb with easy access to other colleges in the greater Boston area.

In terms of Mt. Holyoke and Smith, they are both member of the 5-College Consortium. Amherst and Hampshire Colleges and UMass Amherst make up the rest of the 5. There is a cross-registration agreement amongst the consortium

When I ws in college in the early '80s, Vassar had recently turned co-ed. A boy a couple of years ahead of me in prep school was one of the first male students at Vassar. W&L was undergoing the "Better Dead than Co-ed" debate. Not that Washington and Lee was ever on par with Hampden-Sydney in terms of student caliber, but they would not be the school they are today without the addition of women.

To be perfectly blunt (and when am I not?). H-SC is somewhat regarded as a men's finishing school. Instead of bringing your horse to college, you can bring your hunting dog and weapon. Still, they fill a niche for certain students.

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

On the first point that's certainly true. I think that it's because for some reason, an all-women's college is more appealing to women than an all-men's college is appealing to men. I guess guys just like us. I know that the primary reason W&L went co-ed is that admissions numbers were dropping and along with that the academic... er, strength of the student body was also dropping. Hampden-Sydney college is sort of infamous in the region. It was a fun place to visit but I think its academics may be suffering to some degree as well.

I know that a lot of the women's colleges in the area used to have NPC groups. Pi Phi had two such chapters, one of which was at Hollins. I forget where the other was. Mary Baldwin definitely had NPC groups as well, but these (like the others, I believe) in the first third or so of the 20th cent. They were certainly long-gone by the time my mom got there. I had some friends from MBC in undergrad who would have been interested in Greek Life but it's definitely not allowed there now by any means! I know that at least part of the rationale was "we're all sisters here;" it's meant to discourage cliques I think. Also, if I remember correctly, many of the women's colleges established student government at the same time they banned Greek Life.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by alum

I certainly can't speak for the success of any women's colleges but as usual I have a couple of opinions.

I think part of the success of Wellesley is that it has always been loosely connected with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Wellesley College (a stunning campus in its own right) is in a gorgeous Boston suburb with easy access to other colleges in the greater Boston area.

In terms of Mt. Holyoke and Smith, they are both member of the 5-College Consortium. Amherst and Hampshire Colleges and UMass Amherst make up the rest of the 5. There is a cross-registration agreement amongst the consortium

When I ws in college in the early '80s, Vassar had recently turned co-ed. A boy a couple of years ahead of me in prep school was one of the first male students at Vassar. W&L was undergoing the "Better Dead than Co-ed" debate. Not that Washington and Lee was ever on par with Hampden-Sydney in terms of student caliber, but they would not be the school they are today without the addition of women.

To be perfectly blunt (and when am I not?). H-SC is somewhat regarded as a men's finishing school. Instead of bringing your horse to college, you can bring your hunting dog and weapon. Still, they fill a niche for certain students.

I know girls from Mount Holyoke and Smith and it amuses me no end because most women who go to those colleges go to escape typical college life, of which greek life is a big part...yet they're basically in one big sorority. Their traditions, rituals, things like that.
I had friends from high school who went to Wells College, a small all-womens college in Aurora, NY. They had to go co-ed and no one was happy about it. I visited them over spring break when they were back home and was wearing a letter hoodie. My friend steph looked at it and said 'eeeeuwww' and I just replied with, "um...your college is one giant sorority, I wouldn't be talking."

Wells couldn't survive without going co-ed, as much as it pained them to do so.

[lovelyivy84]

I don't think it's fair to characterize all-female schools as "one big sorority". I went to an all-girls schools from 4th grade through 12th, and looked at some women's colleges (after 9 years of it, it wasn't something I was anxious to do, lol). Granted there are a lot of traditions, and some rituals (depending on the school) but it's nothing like sorority life, given the diversity of the women involved (especially at Smith).

Originally Posted by centaur532

I know girls from Mount Holyoke and Smith and it amuses me no end because most women who go to those colleges go to escape typical college life, of which greek life is a big part...yet they're basically in one big sorority. Their traditions, rituals, things like that.
I had friends from high school who went to Wells College, a small all-womens college in Aurora, NY. They had to go co-ed and no one was happy about it. I visited them over spring break when they were back home and was wearing a letter hoodie. My friend steph looked at it and said 'eeeeuwww' and I just replied with, "um...your college is one giant sorority, I wouldn't be talking."

Wells couldn't survive without going co-ed, as much as it pained them to do so.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by alum

I do find it interesting that some of the remaining women's colleges are among the strongest LACs in the country (Wellesley, Smith, Mt. Holyoke...) while the 2 remaining male colleges (Hampden-Sydney (also in that south-central area of VA) and Wabash (IN) are not attracting the same caliber of young men.

I know nothing about Wabash other than the name, but I wouldn't agree with that characterization about Hampden-Sydney.

[ForeverRoses]

I know a little about Wabash- two gentlemen that I work with attended college there. Wabash is a HUGE greek school. It is almost assumed that all freshman will join a fraternity. The one thing about Wabash that struck me as funny is that ALL freshmen are required to wear little freshmen beanie-cap things. If a particular fraternity would require that, it would be hazing, but since it is the entire school that requires it, apparently it is okay.

Wabash is also located about 45 minutes from DePauw so there are females in close proximity to the school.

[lovelyivy84]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

I know a little about Wabash- two gentlemen that I work with attended college there. Wabash is a HUGE greek school. It is almost assumed that all freshman will join a fraternity. The one thing about Wabash that struck me as funny is that ALL freshmen are required to wear little freshmen beanie-cap things. If a particular fraternity would require that, it would be hazing, but since it is the entire school that requires it, apparently it is okay.

Wabash is also located about 45 minutes from DePauw so there are females in close proximity to the school.

beanies? seriously? LOL

How 1950

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by lovelyivy84

beanies? seriously? LOL

How 1950

To be fair, they just reinstated the tradition after a nearly 40-year hiatus.

Article about the beanie at Wabash

The husband's alma mater was all-male until 1995. They voted to become co-ed in 1991, with the first class of freshmen allowing women in 1995. I don't know exactly why they decided to go co-ed; it's an extremely selective, small private school that is well-known for its engineering degrees. I don't think lack of academic talent was an issue, nor was recruiting students. Plus, with Indiana State and St Mary's of the Woods also in Terre Haute, there was not a shortage of women in the area. Most likely, as MysticCat said, the school voted to do so due to increasing societal pressure.

Wabash is also their sworn enemy. I'm assuming it's a carryover from the all-male days...

[alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I know nothing about Wabash other than the name, but I wouldn't agree with that characterization about Hampden-Sydney.

Unfortunately it's even harder to persuade smart young men to see the benefits of a single-sex education than it is to persuade smart young women to go to a women's college. That's why there are so few all-male colleges and why they are not terribly selective. The majority have gone co-ed.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by alum

Unfortunately it's even harder to persuade smart young men to see the benefits of a single-sex education than it is to persuade smart young women to go to a women's college. That's why there are so few all-male colleges and why they are not terribly selective. The majority have gone co-ed.

I'd say that's one reason that there are so few all male colleges, but I don't think its the main reason.

25 years ago, there were fewer than 10 all male schools in the country, and at least two of them were state military academies (VMA and The Citadel). Most all male schools, public and private, went co-ed in the 60s and 70s, and they did so not because it was that hard to persuade smart young men to go to an all male school but because society as a whole was demanding that the advantages of these schools be available to women as well as men. I'm not saying that going co-ed was a bad thing altogether, although I can wish that more of the all-male private schools had stayed that way. But the reality is that there was never the societal pressure on all-female schools to go co-ed that there was on all-male schools.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I'd say that's one reason that there are so few all male colleges, but I don't think its the main reason.

25 years ago, there were fewer than 10 all male schools in the country, and at least two of them were state military academies (VMA and The Citadel). Most all male schools, public and private, went co-ed in the 60s and 70s, and they did so not because it was that hard to persuade smart young men to go to an all male school but because society as a whole was demanding that the advantages of these schools be available to women as well as men. I'm not saying that going co-ed was a bad thing altogether, although I can wish that more of the all-male private schools had stayed that way. But the reality is that there was never the societal pressure on all-female schools to go co-ed that there was on all-male schools.

In the case then there should be nothing going the other way around.

Male schools being forced to go Co-Ed and Female schools going Co-Ed?

It cannot be just a one way street and in many cases it is do, die, or survive.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I'd say that's one reason that there are so few all male colleges, but I don't think its the main reason.

25 years ago, there were fewer than 10 all male schools in the country, and at least two of them were state military academies (VMA and The Citadel). Most all male schools, public and private, went co-ed in the 60s and 70s, and they did so not because it was that hard to persuade smart young men to go to an all male school but because society as a whole was demanding that the advantages of these schools be available to women as well as men. I'm not saying that going co-ed was a bad thing altogether, although I can wish that more of the all-male private schools had stayed that way. But the reality is that there was never the societal pressure on all-female schools to go co-ed that there was on all-male schools.

I agree with you about the societal pressure of the 1960s and 1970s. But I'm suggesting that evidence from the mid-1970s on, men's schools have trouble attracting the same caliber students they once did. That is quite explicitly the reason W&L went co-ed and even some of the most vehement oppoents of the switch now admit that it saved the school academically, because the number of applications and the level of SAT and academic achievement in the incoming classes were dropping.

There are a few insitutions that escaped this problem: Morehouse, because of its location in Atlanta and the proximity of Spelman, and the military institutions, some (all?) of which are still predominantly male, because of their special missions.

It's VMI, not VMA.