UCF Sig Ep suspended

[Drolefille]

Perhaps it is the indefinate time period vs a specific one (such as four years or so?)

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Perhaps it is the indefinate time period vs a specific one (such as four years or so?)

Perhaps.

Frankly, "suspended" and "kicked off" are the same thing. As such, why is it necessary to make a distinction in the list above (i.e. two chapters were "suspended", one "kicked off" and add this chapter to "kicked off") if both end results are similar?

Originally Posted by TSteven

Perhaps.

Frankly, "suspended" and "kicked off" are the same thing. As such, why is it necessary to make a distinction in the list above (i.e. two chapters were "suspended", one "kicked off" and add this chapter to "kicked off") if both end results are similar?

I have to disagree.

When I hear "suspended" I think of "they're gone but they're allowed to come back later".

When I hear "kicked off" I think "they're gone and most likely won't come back".

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by OTW

I have to disagree.

When I hear "suspended" I think of "they're gone but they're allowed to come back later".

When I hear "kicked off" I think "they're gone and most likely won't come back".

OTW;
I would agree with you.
My POV is Suspended is being on hold or pending while kicked off is just that.
As the story itself says:"The Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity, which is different than the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity that was disbanded in November, is under summary suspension at UCF while allegations of hazing pledges are investigated, Local 6 News reported."

[Ocalagirl]

and from the outside, Sig Ep one of the nicest looking houses I have ever seen. Its sad that all those guys have to move out (I'm assuming) when school just started.

[CasperDU173]

Originally Posted by Ocalagirl

and from the outside, Sig Ep one of the nicest looking houses I have ever seen. Its sad that all those guys have to move out (I'm assuming) when school just started.

I completely disagree with you. What is "sad" is what they did. What is "sad" how they are feeding the negative greek stereotype. Forget their house and what it looked like and how they have to move out, they broke the rules and hazed. They will be lucky if moving out is the worst that will happen to them.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by CasperDU173

I completely disagree with you. What is "sad" is what they did. What is "sad" how they are feeding the negative greek stereotype. Forget their house and what it looked like and how they have to move out, they broke the rules and hazed. They will be luck if moving out is the worst that will happen to them.

Agree.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by CasperDU173

I completely disagree with you. What is "sad" is what they did. What is "sad" how they are feeding the negative greek stereotype. Forget their house and what it looked like and how they have to move out, they broke the rules and hazed. They will be lucky if moving out is the worst that will happen to them.

I'm going to add one more big ME TOO to that

[boz130]

FWIW, chapters can be suspended by acclimation of their own alumni. It happened w/Lambda Chi @ Northwestern.

Back in 1996, they were down to 12 men & had a number of boarders (some of the football players lived there @ the time). Since the University owns the houses, the alumni board wasn't getting enough rent $$$ to pay the bills.

The alums made a decision to suspend operations and came back to campus in 1998. During the downtime, the chapter house was converted into a women's dorm.

When they returned, LCA's expansion team helped them to recruit candidates. The "Founding Fathers-Part II" did a great job of rushing on their own after that--they got to 40 members & surpassed all-men's GPA in just 18 months.

Just last summer, they won LCA's highest chapter honor: the Grand High Alpha award. Quite a far cry from the dark days of 12 guys & the Wildcat offensive line living @ the house.

If the DG alumnae & UCF's Greek Affairs office felt it was in their best interest to go dark, they may have had a good reason...

Interfraternally,
BF

[XiLove_Epsilon]

I think that it is completely sad that fraternities are getting kicked off campuses nation wide. In fact, I think it's pathetic. I realize that there are some things that go too far, but some things are just tradition. We just had a chapter get in trouble with their nationals for having their pledges go and retrieve composites from each fraternity. They were split into groups and this has been tradition for as far back as anyone can remember...things like this is just fun, tradition, and should be left alone by nationals and the media alike. I realize that getting your pledges unbelievably drunk is not the best idea, but sometimes (if no one is getting truely hurt), you've just got to leave well enough alone. Greeks are an exclusive part of universities for a reason.

[strubbe]

Originally Posted by XiLove_Epsilon

I think that it is completely sad that fraternities are getting kicked off campuses nation wide. In fact, I think it's pathetic. I realize that there are some things that go too far, but some things are just tradition. We just had a chapter get in trouble with their nationals for having their pledges go and retrieve composites from each fraternity. They were split into groups and this has been tradition for as far back as anyone can remember...things like this is just fun, tradition, and should be left alone by nationals and the media alike. I realize that getting your pledges unbelievably drunk is not the best idea, but sometimes (if no one is getting truely hurt), you've just got to leave well enough alone. Greeks are an exclusive part of universities for a reason.

Have you bothered to read some of the crap that has been going on? Organizations get kicked off for a reason. Hazing is illegal, and for good reason. The HQ of these organizations are finally coming to their senses and are trying to put a stop to it, not only to save face, but to potentially save the lives of the young men/women looking to join their organizations. I agree that some acts are harmless in nature, but who's to say that breaking into another organization's house to take composites won't lead into something more serious?

Just my opinion.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by XiLove_Epsilon

We just had a chapter get in trouble with their nationals for having their pledges go and retrieve composites from each fraternity. They were split into groups and this has been tradition for as far back as anyone can remember...things like this is just fun, tradition, and should be left alone by nationals and the media alike. I realize that getting your pledges unbelievably drunk is not the best idea, but sometimes (if no one is getting truely hurt), you've just got to leave well enough alone. Greeks are an exclusive part of universities for a reason.

First of all, the pledges were committing theft and vandalism by taking the composites. That is a crime. If organizations are now beginning to recognize that is unacceptable for the supposed elite of the university to commit breaking and entering, then I applaud their efforts to control crime. Because even though it is a tradition, that doesn't make it right or acceptable. Genital mutilation of young women is a long-held tradition in some parts of Africa that is sanctioned by those parts of Africa and respected village elders; does this mean it is right? I realize that theft and mutilation are not the same, but you invoked the name of "tradition."

"If no one is truly getting hurt"-- people are actually getting hurt and we must draw the line somewhere. If Greeks truly embody the best of campus scholarship, leadership and potential, then we must begin to hold ourselves to a higher standard and conduct ourselves as role models, not anarchists who don't hold with the laws and policies of our governing organizations, universities and local/state/federal laws.

Hazing hurts. People get hurt. People die. People get scarred for life, emotionally, physically, even financially. Hazing effects the hazers, the hazed, and their familes. It may start off innocently, but things have a tendency to go wrong very quickly. Hazing interrupts lives, and can go on to have major effects-- do you want to be sued and have your future wages garnished because one of your new members tripped and crippled herself in your harmless blindfolding game and chose to retaliate? It happens and this is one way hazing can affect you, even if you were not directly involved. We may live in a PC, lawsuit happy society, but that can't really be changed. So rather complain about being PC, why not make the best of it and create new traditions that are legal, safe and satisfy everyone's needs?

Alcohol isn't the only killer-- a freshman fraternity pledge died from an overdose of WATER not too long ago. Yes, that's right. He died from water intoxication. I'm sure it sounded like a fun idea and safe to the brothers who thought of it. They're serving jail sentences now and the young man's family and friends will never be the same. There was serious talk of closing the school's Greek System. Not such a great idea after all. Think about that the next time you dress your pledges up in fairy wings, have them drink mystery concoctions, send them on "quests," or require anything of them that hasn't been approved in your new member education plans. You can still have fun, establish traditions and bonds and form memories, but there is a right and responsible way to do it. Act like adults and the community, media and your peers will treat you like adults, instead of coming in and closing you down because you decided to act like children... or worse yet, like common criminals.

Sorry you don't feel the same way. Your nationals has embraced this policy, but if you don't agree with your own sorority policies, you should really reconsider your oath and pledge to your organization.

Originally Posted by adpiucf

Sorry you don't feel the same way. Your nationals has embraced this policy, but if you don't agree with your own sorority policies, you should really reconsider your oath and pledge to your organization.

Best post of the day.

[Tom Earp]

The problem is also, not just Fraternitys, but also Sororitys and that is the problem.

It is a greek wide problem.

We as Greeks are our own worst enemies and wonder why!

People and schools are getting tired of seeing this type of thing (hazing) in the media and wonder WHY!

There used to be no rules or regulations about hazing. But it seems to becomiong more pronounced and reported.

That is why Nationals, Schools. and the public are more concerned.

"Dad/Mom to Son/Daughter, I do not want you joining a group like these Greeks!" " You could die, you will not make your grades"!

[XiLove_Epsilon]

Did you ever stop to think that the fraternities knew that the girls were going to come take their composites and that they pretty much just gave the girls a hard time and then handed them over? Or that these girls have the option to not do it? I'm not saying that fraternities or sororities should be allowed to shove anything down anyone's throat, but there is always the choice of the individual, and if these individuals can not find it in themselves to say no, then they are not greek material anyway. We need strong leaders, not followers, and not all tradition is bad. We've got schools like the one in Florida that have problems with it, but we've also got schools that don't. Should their traditions be sacraficed because of the mistake made by others? No. The problem we're having is that there is too much involvement by the media. Greek life is exclusive for a reason...and the problems we have should stay within the family. Too many chapters suffer because of the mistake of one, and that is completely unfair to everyone. I'm sure that every chapter has some tradition that could be considered hazing, that the chapter that has it, does not think about it as hazing. I'm all about NOT hazing our pledges, but when a scavenger hunt is considered hazing haven't we gone too far? What about the rituals? What if the new memebers have to dress up in certain "costumes" or wear masks or whatever, or the initiated members can't shower, or shave, or whatever for a certain ritual...is that too hazing, or is it just ritual? Pretty soon we're going to have nothing left to our chapters because someone, somewhere will consider it all hazing and we will be left with nothing but a name, some letters and memories. The point I'm trying to make, is that we need to really take a look at what we all stand for...we're a family, we're love, we're greek...these hazing incidents should NOT happen, but somewhere we've got to take care of our own. Why aren't we helping the chapters that are in trouble, giving them alternate ways to take care of their pledges, actually put people in there to HELP them instead of kicking them off campuses, and putting them on probation with no one to give them any resources? I just believe that we are going about this in all the wrong ways...i'm not saying ignore hazing, or that it's right, i'm saying that we need to fix it instead of just hacking every chapter we possibly can, because all we are doing that way is giving those who are against greeks, for whatever reason they hate us, some more bullets. What we need to do is have a facilitator come in, clean up the chapter, and see who is truly detrimental to that chapter on that campus. There has to be at least a few good apples in every bunch that truely want to be there, that didn't take part in all of this, and that have a true heart for the chapter they are in. Ridding the campus of every one of them takes away any opportunity they have to help themselves with a better name or a new reputation. If you are not willing to take a true look at what we could do to HELP instead of KILL a chapter, then I suggest that YOU take a look at what you pledged and your oath and consider why you exist in the greek community.