FDA poised to OK food from cloned animals

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

So there are several reasons why "cloning" is more cost effective of some kinds of production for foods:

Let's take your example of a cow. Calves take too long to wean. Unless you want veal, you MUST leave the calf with the mother.

As I understand it, it takes ~200+ days to have a calf or 10-11 months depend on size. Some strains of bovine do not breed as sucessfully as mixed breed.

Most mixed breed do not produce enough milk or quality of meat--i.e. too tough, etc.

Breeding takes too long. Sometime the stud doesn't impregnate the females. Sometimes he doesn't know where to put it. So, do you want to wait for production? Knowing the U.S. population's desire for a good steak or tenderloin?

Well, with molecular genetics the scientists, vets, physicians, big pharma, corporations, just move evolution a little faster than normal time...

Um, so you know, clones are born just like normal calves and must grow up, get weaned, etc. They don't spring fully grown from a petri dish.

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Um, so you know, clones are born just like normal calves and must grow up, get weaned, etc. They don't spring fully grown from a petri dish.

Considering that AKA_Monet has a PhD in the sciences (biochemistry?) I SERIOUSLY doubt that she needs you to explain to her that clones "don't spring fully grown from a petri dish".

I'm fully convinced that 90% of the active posters on GC do it solely to see their words on the screen. I really really hope you people don't actually believe in the crap that you post. If you do, then I'm genuinely concerned.....

[Tom Earp]

Interesting to finally find out that Asprin is not a pain killer but a blood thinner only! WOW!

They why do people take asprin for pain and have for years before the new biggies came out.

What is amazing about the FDA is thier willingness to allow drugs and other products on the market. The FDA is one of the most inept Agencies in Our Govt.

What I love are Ads that tout certain medecations for certain things and then list what the hell they can do to the human body if you take them.

During the American Revolution troops were given rum to settle their nerves instead of drugs.

Interesting isn't it?

Which would you rather have?

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by jubilance1922

Considering that AKA_Monet has a PhD in the sciences (biochemistry?) I SERIOUSLY doubt that she needs you to explain to her that clones "don't spring fully grown from a petri dish".

I'm fully convinced that 90% of the active posters on GC do it solely to see their words on the screen. I really really hope you people don't actually believe in the crap that you post. If you do, then I'm genuinely concerned.....

Actually, Drole is correct. The cloned animals don't spring fully grown from a petri dish.

The way it is done is to transplant a nuceus from a cell from one animal into the enucleated egg of another. The nucleus-egg combination is then fused together with electricity. The electricity also stimulates cell division. The divided cell is placed into the uterus of the female. The animal grows in the uterus and is born as a baby animal.

Unfortunately, the obviously fictional movie, "The Island" has made people think mammal clones are produced fully developed. They are not.

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Actually, Drole is correct. The cloned animals don't spring fully grown from a petri dish.

The way it is done is to transplant a nuceus from a cell from one animal into the enucleated egg of another. The nucleus-egg combination is then fused together with electricity. The electricity also stimulates cell division. The divided cell is placed into the uterus of the female. The animal grows in the uterus and is born as a baby animal.

Unfortunately, the obviously fictional movie, "The Island" has made people think mammal clones are produced fully developed. They are not.

OMG, you totally missed the point that I was making...Let me make it plain for you...

NO ONE SAID THAT DROLEFILE WAS WRONG. BUT SINCE AKA_MONET HAS A PHD, THERE WAS NO NEED FOR DROLEFILE TO BRING UP THE COMMENT ABOUT ANIMALS SPRINGING FROM A PETRI DISH FULLY GROWN. I THINK SHE WOULD HAVE MASTERED THAT CONCEPT IN GRADUATE SCHOOL.

AND THERE IS NO NEED TO EXPLAIN TO ME HOW CLONING WORKS. I HAVE TWO DEGREES IN CHEMISTRY, I THINK I KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT SCIENCE.

The above post only proves my point that folks only like to see their words on the screen....do you people even read before you just start posting?

[blueangel]

Jub-- I think Drole was responding to this comment by AKAMonet:

"The other thing is, to maintain the health of a cow is extremely costly. If that process can be sped up, then would you try it?"

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by jubilance1922

I'm fully convinced that 90% of the active posters on GC do it solely to see their words on the screen. I really really hope you people don't actually believe in the crap that you post. If you do, then I'm genuinely concerned.....

Best post in this entire thread.

[Drolefille]

While I have no personal knowledge of AKAMonet's educational background, I was simply responding to what I read in her post. She may indeed have just posted that for no other reason than to see the words on the screen, but those words are all I can reply to.

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

While I have no personal knowledge of AKAMonet's educational background, I was simply responding to what I read in her post. She may indeed have just posted that for no other reason than to see the words on the screen, but those words are all I can reply to.

Where did she say that clones spring fully formed from a petri dish, or even imply it?

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

While I have no personal knowledge of AKAMonet's educational background, I was simply responding to what I read in her post. She may indeed have just posted that for no other reason than to see the words on the screen, but those words are all I can reply to.

In her previous post, she noted that she has cloned cells, mice and rats. Even if you didn't know her educational background, that should have been a clue that she understood this topic pretty well.

[AKA_Monet]

I find all of this quite comical..

Thanks Jubilance about my qualifications. I appreciate it. This discussion is not about who knows more it is about misrepresentation regarding facts clearly discussed by several professionals.

It is about supply and demand. The US will not have the meat supply as demand for beef products goes up. It's not just meat or milk. Serum's used, the bonemeal is used, the leather products are used. At least 10+ items are used from the animal. It takes several Federal Agencies to approved use for animal processing...

Actual "ELECTROPORATION" of Enucleated Zygotes with somatic DNA will give us a certain higher yield in the number of animals.

No one has clearly answered how many different strains of bovine species in the US not including bison and buffalo...

Jersey, Halstein [sp?], Brahma, Rowan, Kobe, Angus, etc.

That's just the short list...

It takes ~5000 steer per year are consumed for food in the US...

And that doesn't include the Veal we get from Hawaii off the Parker Ranch...

And most of our beef is beginning to get imported from Southeat Asia and South America just like the rest of our food.

Cloning is a way to boost our market share for rare meats and increase the premium. It is not cool as an overall practice, but we live in a capitalistic society and well...

Just price out tenderloins or filet mignons... And when is the last time $2 billion business for beef BBQ production can be told ANYTHING BUT NO?

Now you know why they are cloning animals...

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I find all of this quite comical..

Thanks Jubilance about my qualifications. I appreciate it. This discussion is not about who knows more it is about misrepresentation regarding facts clearly discussed by several professionals.

It is about supply and demand. The US will not have the meat supply as demand for beef products goes up. It's not just meat or milk. Serum's used, the bonemeal is used, the leather products are used. At least 10+ items are used from the animal. It takes several Federal Agencies to approved use for animal processing...

Actual "ELECTROPORATION" of Enucleated Zygotes with somatic DNA will give us a certain higher yield in the number of animals.

No one has clearly answered how many different strains of bovine species in the US not including bison and buffalo...

Jersey, Halstein [sp?], Brahma, Rowan, Kobe, Angus, etc.

That's just the short list...

It takes ~5000 steer per year are consumed for food in the US...

And that doesn't include the Veal we get from Hawaii off the Parker Ranch...

And most of our beef is beginning to get imported from Southeat Asia and South America just like the rest of our food.

Cloning is a way to boost our market share for rare meats and increase the premium. It is not cool as an overall practice, but we live in a capitalistic society and well...

Just price out tenderloins or filet mignons... And when is the last time $2 billion business for beef BBQ production can be told ANYTHING BUT NO?

Now you know why they are cloning animals...

Anytime chica

As for the underlined: I got $5 that says the majority of GC have no idea what those words even mean, and they have to look them up.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by jubilance1922

Anytime chica

As for the underlined: I got $5 that says the majority of GC have no idea what those words even mean, and they have to look them up.

True, although I'm not sure that should prevent people from talking about this. We have lots of subjects on this site (government/politics, legal, the media) where people don't have much knowledge but still post their opinions.

I do agree with you, though, that where someone has a demonstrated knowledge of a subject, the rest of the posters should respect that knowledge (AKA Monet in science, Delt in TV production, etc.).

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

It is about supply and demand. The US will not have the meat supply as demand for beef products goes up. It's not just meat or milk. Serum's used, the bonemeal is used, the leather products are used. At least 10+ items are used from the animal. It takes several Federal Agencies to approved use for animal processing...

Can you quote some statistics to back up your allegation? On the contrary, I seem to be finding evidence of a glut of meat -- both chicken and beef on the U.S. market:

"In November, Tyson ended its fiscal year with a third straight quarterly loss, as its chicken and beef businesses were hurt by a glut of meat on the market. Agricultural economists have blamed the meat surplus on a range of factors, including overproduction following high market prices for animals in the past two years."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4440816.html

The glut drove meat prices down... and as a result, the struggling meat industry is looking at the recent winter storms on the Plains as prompting beef prices to rise next year.

What about the overproduction of milk?

"Carol Tucker Foreman, of the Consumer Federation of America, said U.S. farmers produce more milk than Americans can drink, and the government must buy the surplus. "Since 1999, dairy-support programs have cost taxpayers over $5 billion," she said."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...8_clone29.html

Actual "ELECTROPORATION" of Enucleated Zygotes with somatic DNA will give us a certain higher yield in the number of animals.

Again.. where are you numbers? The low success rate and the high number of abnormalites in cloned animals not only makes no economic sense, but it is cruel to animals. Further... Did you know that this process will cost an estimated $15,000 per procedure?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...8_clone29.html

And most of our beef is beginning to get imported from Southeat Asia and South America just like the rest of our food...

There has been much resistance to the idea of consuming cloned meats in much of the world. It would seem to me that instead of being positive for our trade balance, this would be a big negative as other countries will be suspect of the safety of US Food.

Countries like Japan and South Korea have already had or have bans of U.S. meat in place due to bovine spongiform encephalopathy (Mad Cow) worries. In fact in 2006, 21 countries banned the importation of U.S. meat over safety concerns. And you think the U.S. food supply is safe? Apparently, those countries think so.

" According to a recent report to the European Union’s executive arm by the Danish Centre for Bioethics and Risk Assessment, “Groups of citizens, and even some member states, would be likely to resist the import and/or marketing [labeled or unlabeled] of cloned animals and their products.“

"In South Korea, one of the largest export markets for U.S. beef, cloned foods “are not positive“ said Sockjoong Yoon, minister for public affairs at the South Korean Embassy in Washington. Chong Ghee Ahn, the embassy’s economic counselor, said it was too early to say what impact cloning might have on U.S. exports. However, he added that in the wake of mad-cow disease and avian flu, “Korean customers are getting very, very sensitive.“
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content...ontentid=94274

Regarding South America: Columbia and Peru have only recently reopened importation of U.S. meat after banning it due to Mad Cow concerns. This is not new trade as you imply. In 2003 for example, the U.S. exported a combined total of more than $4 million worth of beef and beef products to Colombia and Peru.
http://www.meatnews.com/index.cfm?fu...e&artNum=12879

Cloning is a way to boost our market share for rare meats and increase the premium. It is not cool as an overall practice, but we live in a capitalistic society and well...

In what way, when there is international resistance to cloned meat products?

Just price out tenderloins or filet mignons... And when is the last time $2 billion business for beef BBQ production can be told ANYTHING BUT NO?

Now you know why they are cloning animals...

Actually, meat prices are lower due to the glut of beef and chicken on the market. Again, please see the first article I quoted regarding Tyson's profits falling.

The bottom line... the safety of cloned meat is still in question.

The nonprofit advocacy group the Center for Food Safety in Washington, D.C., cited a number of health and safety problems related to cloned livestock that the group says the agency has not properly addressed.

People eating cloned meat would be exposed to higher amounts of animal hormones, related to the cloning process, the group says.

The animals themselves would suffer from the high incidence of disease and birth defects currently recorded in cloned animals.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ed-meat_2.html

And this from a news release I received fromThe Center for Food Safety:
“When they deny us mandatory labels, they don’t just deny us the right to choose,” said Andrew Kimbrell, executive director of the Center for Food Safety.

“They also deny our health professionals the ability to trace potential toxic or allergic reactions to this food,” Kimbrell said. “It’s bad enough they’re making us guinea pigs. But when we have health effects, we won’t be able to trace it.”

I don't choose to be the FDA's guinea pig. Do you?

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Can you quote some statistics to back up your allegation? On the contrary, I seem to be finding evidence of a glut of meat -- both chicken and beef on the U.S. market:

There's a big glut of lots of products on the market. Know why? Government pays subsidies to farmers to create the extra product.
Then, when it doesn't sell, it gets dumped on poor struggling third world countries to sell instead.