SMU student found dead at SAE House - Page 2

macallan25 · #16 12-04-2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Ohio State was one of our larger and older chapters with some very influential alumni.

That didn't make any difference.

And it shouldn't.

It was due to its history and alumni support -- including a member of our Arch Chapter (board of directors) -- that allowed it to recolonize so quickly, though.

You're right, we don't know the whole story, but if this kind of behavior is a norm at the chapter, and it isn't closed, then SAE isn't as good of an organization as I think it is.

Delt, if you don't think drugs and alcohol are a part of a significant number of chapters then you need to wake up and smell the coffee. They are everywhere. I don't think it is fair to make your mind up about an organization because a chapter has guys that do drugs.

In this case......its SMU. That school is insanely wealthy.......and so are its fraternity members. Lots of partying and lots of drugs. This is known by everyone.

shinerbock · #17 12-04-2006, 08:35 PM

Delt, no its not. Thats not how society works at all. Usually, you do drugs, you get hurt, its your fault. You get arrested, you're liable for the consequences. Theres no need for some pseudo watchdog group overseeing your actions. If nationals wants to kick the kid out, fine, do it. Don't punish the chapter because some people use drugs. How are fraternities supposed to help guys grow into men when HQ's hover over them? If you don't wanna do drugs, don't. If you do, do, and see what happens. If you wanna be hazed, go for it. If you don't, hit the road. Our entire male greek system is gonna be filled with whiny bitches if this keeps up.

jon1856 · #18 12-05-2006, 12:04 AM

I saw this over the weekend, while surfing, and hoped that it would not get picked up.

Speaking for myself, and perhaps Brother Mac', thank you for your kind thought and words.

My thoughts are also with the Chapter and his family and friends.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw....52ac3362.html

I have a thought for a new thread that I will start when I have a few free monuments. Will be some sort of good news/good deed thread of some sort. Keep an eye open for it.

DeltAlum · #19 12-05-2006, 01:16 AM

Gentlemen,

If you run a liquor store and keep selling to minors -- you lose your license. If you run a bar and sell to minors, you lose your license. If you allow illegal drugs to be used in your home, you could go to jail.

In this case, an underaged young man allegedly used drugs and drank alcohol in the chapter house.

Those are both not only against the rules, they're against the law as well.

Saying that it's done all the time doesn't change either of those facts.

If someone breaks the law and you aid in that, you can be held responsible as well.

If you are responsible (personally or as a chapter), you can either be charged for breaking the law or be sued or lose your charter as a chapter.

Sorry. That is the way society works.

Sister Havana · #20 12-05-2006, 01:51 AM

Here's an article about him from the Naperville Sun (local paper). Very sad.

macallan25 · #21 12-05-2006, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Gentlemen,

If you run a liquor store and keep selling to minors -- you lose your license. If you run a bar and sell to minors, you lose your license. If you allow illegal drugs to be used in your home, you could go to jail.

In this case, an underaged young man allegedly used drugs and drank alcohol in the chapter house.

Those are both not only against the rules, they're against the law as well.

Saying that it's done all the time doesn't change either of those facts.

If someone breaks the law and you aid in that, you can be held responsible as well.

If you are responsible (personally or as a chapter), you can either be charged for breaking the law or be sued or lose your charter as a chapter.

Sorry. That is the way society works.

Delt, no one said anything about him doing either of those in the chapter house. Thanks. SAE had an off campus Christmas party Friday night.....so he may have been there for a while......although several of my friends said they saw him elsewhere at bars.

shinerbock · #22 12-05-2006, 02:13 AM

Delt, yeah, you kick the kid out. You don't shut down the house. Come in and do some sort of drug awareness pc bullcrap or something. I understand HQ's have to mitigate their liability on stuff like this, thats obviously part of the problem as well. My biggest problem with stuff like this, is that isolated incidents create change for everyone else. Granted, I'm not blaming this chapter or this kid at all, this is about a broader issue. Its the same thing with hazing. Plenty of chapters do it for decades without incident, but one chapter screwing up can ruin it for everyone else. Millions of college kids binge drink, but one who doesn't know his limits creates a ridiculous environment for everyone else. I guess I would have preferred greek life before HQ's became so involved, and to be fair to them, before litigation became a core principle of being an American.

Tom Earp · #23 12-05-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Gentlemen,

If you run a liquor store and keep selling to minors -- you lose your license. If you run a bar and sell to minors, you lose your license. If you allow illegal drugs to be used in your home, you could go to jail.

In this case, an underaged young man allegedly used drugs and drank alcohol in the chapter house.

Those are both not only against the rules, they're against the law as well.

Saying that it's done all the time doesn't change either of those facts.

If someone breaks the law and you aid in that, you can be held responsible as well.

If you are responsible (personally or as a chapter), you can either be charged for breaking the law or be sued or lose your charter as a chapter.

Sorry. That is the way society works.

DeltAlum, how can you be so ignorant when it comes to Greek Life as proposed by so few others?

Don't you know anybetter than to argue with those in the know who know more than others?

For shame.

Oh well, with age comes some maturity.

Kevin · #24 12-05-2006, 04:55 PM

What I see here is one very tragic situation where a kid died. No matter what type of risk management policies you have, you can't watch every member all of the time. You can pretend that none of your members do drugs, but really, you're just fooling yourself. The stuff is out there, it happens, so be it. Just pray no one gets hurt.

My condolences to the SAE family. I don't think any kind of sanctimonious "follow your RM policy!' thing I could say could possibly help the situation. These kids have probably learned a very sobering lesson here.

boz130 · #25 12-05-2006, 07:45 PM

It's definitely still out there. During a Homecoming visit to a school a couple of months ago, I stopped by various chapters that I've produced newsletters & alumni communications materials for.

In two instances, I was welcomed by the familiar purple haze that was prevalent during my time in school 30 years ago. Brother Spicoli, howyadoin?

boz130 · #26 12-05-2006, 07:47 PM

Having worked with various SAE chapters, I'd also like to offer my condolences to the men of SMU and to the family of the brother who's passed away. His home's not far from my cousin's house in Naperville, IL.

Interfraternally,
Bill F.

jon1856 · #27 12-05-2006, 10:37 PM

Nothing truly new in the news on this-seems that medical report will not be out for awhile.
Just this from several media sites:
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/n...ENT_S1.article

http://www.smudailycampus.com/media/...ailycampus.com

http://www.smudailycampus.com/media/...ailycampus.com

MysticCat · #28 12-07-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

What I see here is one very tragic situation where a kid died. No matter what type of risk management policies you have, you can't watch every member all of the time. . . . I don't think any kind of sanctimonious "follow your RM policy!' thing I could say could possibly help the situation. These kids have probably learned a very sobering lesson here.

I completely agree. There may be some risk management lessons to learn here -- I certainly can't know because I only know a little of the story -- but right now is a time for grief and sympathy, not lectures, especially from those of us who are only semi-informed observers.

My condolences to Jon and Mac, to their SAE brothers, and to Stiles' family and friends.

DeltAlum · #29 12-07-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I completely agree. There may be some risk management lessons to learn here -- I certainly can't know because I only know a little of the story -- but right now is a time for grief and sympathy, not lectures, especially from those of us who are only semi-informed observers.

With respect, I (at least partially) disagree.

The name of this forum is Risk Management and it is set up to discuss "topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorcer Prevention, Liability, etc."

Condolences are absolutely appropriate, but not the stated mission of the forum. It is to discuss and, hopefully, learn from the problems facing other people and organizations so that others might not find themselves in the same situation(s).

Having been a division officer at a chapter where there was a suicide and having to talk to grieving parents, brothers and other students (Greek and non) at a memorial service on the campus; and having been recommended to be an investigator for issues such as this (I declined), I feel pretty strongly that there are lessons to be learned and that the way that happens is through an ongoing dialog.

Many of us expressed out condolences early in the thread, but I believe that it is important to discuss (and learn from) these situations as soon as possible.

33girl · #30 12-07-2006, 12:56 PM

It's a TEACHABLE MOMENT!!!

(and for anyone who doesn't know me well, I completely agree w/ Kevin and MysticCat that the lectures aren't needed at present time, especially over and over)