Michael Richards aka "Kramer" racist?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

Well, nowadays, even if you said the n-word, you may not be seen as a racist due to the fact that the entertainment/music world has been overusing this word that people have been become insensative about it.

Yeah . . . this is kind of a cop-out. While context is important (no one will claim that reading Huckleberry Finn out loud makes anyone a 'racist' because they'll be required to speak racial slurs), I'm pretty sure that the 'target group' (in this case, African Americans) haven't really become desensitized to the stigma attached to the word, especially as uttered by white people.

The only people made 'insensative' (sic) about the term are, in fact, people who aren't the 'target', I would posit.

Additionally, referencing pop culture use of racial slurs really isn't comparable to directly yelling the term at someone in public - and even then, it's probably offensive to some, and you would probably never try for a "Nigga please" reference to a black man unless you were extremely close and had precedent for such a comment, right?

Or would you even then?

[Phasad1913]

I have a problem with the wole calling for an apology thing. It irks me. I heard on the news this morning that someone was saying he won't be allowed back into the club until he apologizes and the african american community accepts it or deems him worthy or some mess like that. Why are we the only ones who are supposed to be given an apology? I obviously understand why a person would look to see how black people feel about it because we are the ones who are called niggers but you mean to tell me that no one else cares? Is it really like the rest of the country hears something like this and says "oh that's their problem"? That's a shame if that is the case, although I wouldn't be surprised. I just do not care for the concept that someone should force someone else who says or does something like that to apologize. What is that supposed to do? So many people call us that word all the time so it really means nothing to me if when someone who is popular or famous (even if you are a has-been) says it and is heard by many people saying it apologizes AFTER the fact. He said it, he meant it and its done. So what? The word isn't going anywhere, whites will always call us that, they always have, so just accept that you feel that way about us...period. This fake apologizing for this crap once you've said it and exposed your true feelings is making me sick! The more groups like the naacp and the so-called "leaders" of the black community call for apologies, the more rediculous it sounds and comes across because people continue to come out of their a$$es and use the word. Their apologizing for it doesn't change a thing. I think the anger and energy exerted at times like this should just be used for something more constructive.

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

I have a problem with the wole calling for an apology thing. It irks me. I heard on the news this morning that someone was saying he won't be allowed back into the club until he apologizes and the african american community accepts it or deems him worthy or some mess like that. Why are we the only ones who are supposed to be given an apology? I obviously understand why a person would look to see how black people feel about it because we are the ones who are called niggers but you mean to tell me that no one else cares? Is it really like the rest of the country hears something like this and says "oh that's their problem"? That's a shame if that is the case, although I wouldn't be surprised. I just do not care for the concept that someone should force someone else who says or does something like that to apologize. What is that supposed to do? So many people call us that word all the time so it really means nothing to me if when someone who is popular or famous (even if you are a has-been) says it and is heard by many people saying it apologizes AFTER the fact. He said it, he meant it and its done. So what? The word isn't going anywhere, whites will always call us that, they always have, so just accept that you feel that way about us...period. This fake apologizing for this crap once you've said it and exposed your true feelings is making me sick! The more groups like the naacp and the so-called "leaders" of the black community call for apologies, the more rediculous it sounds and comes across because people continue to come out of their a$$es and use the word. Their apologizing for it doesn't change a thing. I think the anger and energy exerted at times like this should just be used for something more constructive.

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by macallan25

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

Seriously macallan, you know that it's a completely different situation. In your hypothetical there isn't a white man pointing and saying "He's a nigger! He's a nigger!".

I really cannot believe anyone is trying to explain Richards' use of the word or his behavior.

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by macallan25

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

We're not talking about this type of a situation and you know it. In any event, I would find both of those users of the word to have some serious issues. I never said that any and all actions by white involving race constitutes racism, what I am saying is that racism entails far more than what many people want to claim it does.

Don't assume you know enough about me to know how I feel about the use of the word nigger by anyone in any context.

Aside from this point, as you admitted yourself, no one is that naive. The whole country knows that SOME blacks' use of the word toward one another is a strange phenomenon. Despite that some white folks still don't use it even though by all means nothing is stopping them other than that fact they they KNOW why its different when they use it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

A racist. Don't assume you know enough about me to know how I feel about the use of the word n***** by anyone in any context.

When I was 12 years old, I once used the term "Arab" (pronounced AY-rab) in class and everyone died laughing. I had no idea it could be considered a racial slur.

That's what macallan is talking about. He's not addressing the Michael Richards situation per se, just wondering what you would think if someone really, truly was that unknowing.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by 33girl

When I was 12 years old, I once used the term "Arab" (pronounced AY-rab) in class and everyone died laughing. I had no idea it could be considered a racial slur.

That's what macallan is talking about. He's not addressing the Michael Richards situation per se, just wondering what you would think if someone really, truly was that unknowing.

Exactly.

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by 33girl

When I was 12 years old, I once used the term "Arab" (pronounced AY-rab) in class and everyone died laughing. I had no idea it could be considered a racial slur.

That's what macallan is talking about. He's not addressing the Michael Richards situation per se, just wondering what you would think if someone really, truly was that unknowing.

Really?You conferred with him and got clarification on what he was talking about? I've unfortunatley been exposed to many of the the things he has said and I have a pretty good idea of how he thinks on issues like this. I know what he is addressing. Not being rude to you, but I am capable of discerning his meaning and I responded to him the way I felt appropriate.

And also, you were 12 years old. We're talking about a grown man in the case of Richards and I have no idea who macallan could be talking about since, again as he, himself has acknowledged, people aren't that naive, even young ones.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

Really?You conferred with him and got clarification on what he was talking about? I've unfortunatley been exposed to many of the the things he has said and I have a pretty good idea of how he thinks on issues like this. I know what he is addressing. Not being rude to you, but I am capable of discerning his meaning and I responded to him the way I felt appropriate.

And also, you were 12 years old. We're talking about a grown man in the case of Richards and I have no idea who macallan could be talking about since, again as he, himself has acknowledged, people aren't that naive, even young ones.

See above post.

Also, whatever macallan's personal opinions are (and I don't agree with many of them) in this case answer the question, not the person.

Trust me, I can easily see people in some of the bassackwards towns in my state walking up to a black man and saying "what up n***a!" after seeing it on TV and having no clue they did anything wrong, because they have absolutely never had any face to face contact with a black person in their lives.

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by 33girl

When I was 12 years old, I once used the term "Arab" (pronounced AY-rab) in class and everyone died laughing. I had no idea it could be considered a racial slur.

That's what macallan is talking about. He's not addressing the Michael Richards situation per se, just wondering what you would think if someone really, truly was that unknowing.

When I was about 12, my sister and cousins and I were called a bunch of n-word by a white kid that was a little younger than I was and he and his friends laughed and knew exactly what they were saying.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

A racist. Don't assume you know enough about me to know how I feel about the use of the word nigger by anyone in any context.

Aside from this point, as you admitted yourself, no one is that naive. The whole country knows that SOME blacks' use of the word toward one another is a strange phenomenon. Despite that some white folks still don't use it even though by all means nothing is stopping them other than that fact they they KNOW why its different when they use it.

I'm not assuming anything. But I certainly wouldn't label a person a racist if they didn't know about the negative context behind the word.

I'm sorry, but I see very VERY few blacks that don't use that word towards one another. I certainly wouldn't call it a strange phenomenon. I hear it on a daily basis....way more than often.

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I'm not assuming anything. But I certainly wouldn't label a person a racist if they didn't know about the negative context behind the word.

I'm sorry, but I see very VERY few blacks that don't use that word towards one another. I certainly wouldn't call it a strange phenomenon. I hear it on a daily basis....way more than often.

And I'm sorry, but I think its obvious that you know very VERY few blacks period. If you knew more, than it would be clear to you how wrong you happen to be.

[RedVelvet]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I'm not assuming anything. But I certainly wouldn't label a person a racist if they didn't know about the negative context behind the word.

I'm sorry, but I see very VERY few blacks that don't use that word towards one another. I certainly wouldn't call it a strange phenomenon. I hear it on a daily basis....way more than often.

Really. You must have very limited contact with a very few "blacks."

[smiley21]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I'm sorry, but I see very VERY few blacks that don't use that word towards one another. I certainly wouldn't call it a strange phenomenon. I hear it on a daily basis....way more than often.

That is funny because I never say the N word and I know a lot of black people who don't use it either. I do know some who do, but the ones who don't are not few are far between.

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I'm not assuming anything. But I certainly wouldn't label a person a racist if they didn't know about the negative context behind the word.

I'm sorry, but I see very VERY few blacks that don't use that word towards one another. I certainly wouldn't call it a strange phenomenon. I hear it on a daily basis....way more than often.

I know very few blacks that do use the n-word and I'm black, and I'm pretty sure I know more blacks than you. My family never used it, I didn't and my child won't be raised to think it's ok to use it period.