Michael Richards aka "Kramer" racist?

[cutie_cat_4ever]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Incorrect.

Even with the derivatives of the word, the N word will always have a place in history and in the hearts of many Americans. The entertainment world hasn't made it appropriate for white people to say the N word. The only white people I can tolerate saying that word in any form are white sociolinguists and even these professionals try not to overuse that contextual privilege.

I guess I should clarify a bit more, that while I think that it's inappropriate to call people with names (and heck, I've been called names too since I'm non-white), you have to admit that the younger generation isn't exposed to what the African Americans had suffer in the past, they do not realize that "seriousness" of this word. And it doesn't help that certain music genres use of such rasicts words (also sexist if you want, different versions of racial slur), it makes does in fact make people less and less aware of how much insult and harm by just saying those words can do.

yet again, that's just how I see it...

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

I guess I should clarify a bit more, that while I think that it's inappropriate to call people with names (and heck, I've been called names too since I'm non-white), you have to admit that the younger generation isn't exposed to what the African Americans had suffer in the past, they do not realize that "seriousness" of this word. And it doesn't help that certain music genres use of such rasicts words (also sexist if you want, different versions of racial slur), it makes does in fact make people less and less aware of how much insult and harm by just saying those words can do.

yet again, that's just how I see it...

Right, but Richards is 58. I think older people, him included, are VERY aware of the seriousness of the word and how much of an insult it is.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

you have to admit that the younger generation isn't exposed to what the African Americans had suffer in the past, they do not realize that "seriousness" of this word. And it doesn't help that certain music genres use of such rasicts words (also sexist if you want, different versions of racial slur), it makes does in fact make people less and less aware of how much insult and harm by just saying those words can do.

No......

[cutie_cat_4ever]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

No......

Well, as I said, that's just my opinion of how I see this society is nowadays.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

Well, nowadays, even if you said the n-word, you may not be seen as a racist due to the fact that the entertainment/music world has been overusing this word that people have been become insensative about it.

Yeah . . . this is kind of a cop-out. While context is important (no one will claim that reading Huckleberry Finn out loud makes anyone a 'racist' because they'll be required to speak racial slurs), I'm pretty sure that the 'target group' (in this case, African Americans) haven't really become desensitized to the stigma attached to the word, especially as uttered by white people.

The only people made 'insensative' (sic) about the term are, in fact, people who aren't the 'target', I would posit.

Additionally, referencing pop culture use of racial slurs really isn't comparable to directly yelling the term at someone in public - and even then, it's probably offensive to some, and you would probably never try for a "Nigga please" reference to a black man unless you were extremely close and had precedent for such a comment, right?

Or would you even then?

[Phasad1913]

I have a problem with the wole calling for an apology thing. It irks me. I heard on the news this morning that someone was saying he won't be allowed back into the club until he apologizes and the african american community accepts it or deems him worthy or some mess like that. Why are we the only ones who are supposed to be given an apology? I obviously understand why a person would look to see how black people feel about it because we are the ones who are called niggers but you mean to tell me that no one else cares? Is it really like the rest of the country hears something like this and says "oh that's their problem"? That's a shame if that is the case, although I wouldn't be surprised. I just do not care for the concept that someone should force someone else who says or does something like that to apologize. What is that supposed to do? So many people call us that word all the time so it really means nothing to me if when someone who is popular or famous (even if you are a has-been) says it and is heard by many people saying it apologizes AFTER the fact. He said it, he meant it and its done. So what? The word isn't going anywhere, whites will always call us that, they always have, so just accept that you feel that way about us...period. This fake apologizing for this crap once you've said it and exposed your true feelings is making me sick! The more groups like the naacp and the so-called "leaders" of the black community call for apologies, the more rediculous it sounds and comes across because people continue to come out of their a$$es and use the word. Their apologizing for it doesn't change a thing. I think the anger and energy exerted at times like this should just be used for something more constructive.

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

I have a problem with the wole calling for an apology thing. It irks me. I heard on the news this morning that someone was saying he won't be allowed back into the club until he apologizes and the african american community accepts it or deems him worthy or some mess like that. Why are we the only ones who are supposed to be given an apology? I obviously understand why a person would look to see how black people feel about it because we are the ones who are called niggers but you mean to tell me that no one else cares? Is it really like the rest of the country hears something like this and says "oh that's their problem"? That's a shame if that is the case, although I wouldn't be surprised. I just do not care for the concept that someone should force someone else who says or does something like that to apologize. What is that supposed to do? So many people call us that word all the time so it really means nothing to me if when someone who is popular or famous (even if you are a has-been) says it and is heard by many people saying it apologizes AFTER the fact. He said it, he meant it and its done. So what? The word isn't going anywhere, whites will always call us that, they always have, so just accept that you feel that way about us...period. This fake apologizing for this crap once you've said it and exposed your true feelings is making me sick! The more groups like the naacp and the so-called "leaders" of the black community call for apologies, the more rediculous it sounds and comes across because people continue to come out of their a$$es and use the word. Their apologizing for it doesn't change a thing. I think the anger and energy exerted at times like this should just be used for something more constructive.

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by macallan25

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

Seriously macallan, you know that it's a completely different situation. In your hypothetical there isn't a white man pointing and saying "He's a nigger! He's a nigger!".

I really cannot believe anyone is trying to explain Richards' use of the word or his behavior.

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by macallan25

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

We're not talking about this type of a situation and you know it. In any event, I would find both of those users of the word to have some serious issues. I never said that any and all actions by white involving race constitutes racism, what I am saying is that racism entails far more than what many people want to claim it does.

Don't assume you know enough about me to know how I feel about the use of the word nigger by anyone in any context.

Aside from this point, as you admitted yourself, no one is that naive. The whole country knows that SOME blacks' use of the word toward one another is a strange phenomenon. Despite that some white folks still don't use it even though by all means nothing is stopping them other than that fact they they KNOW why its different when they use it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by macallan25

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

That person is called an idiot who is looking for an excuse to use the word.

I hear whites call each other white trash and Hispanics call each other "spic" but I've never wondered if it would be appropriate for me to use those terms. As I always say when this topic comes up, if people want to use certain words and phrases within-group, it's not my job to challenge it or wonder why I can't do it. Why would I WANT to do it?!

[smiley21]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

I definitely agree with this. I was also thinking, "How can someone say such a vile thing about a particular ethnicity and be considered racist?". Someone does not just say something like that because they are upset. It came from a deeper place.

Kramer had a nervous breakdown and he has serious problems. That is obvious.

But I am so uncomfortable with word "racist", because the definition is too broad. Sometimes, it is obvious when someone is a racist. Other times, it is not so simple. I HATE the "N" word. I don't care who says it. My dad even says it when he is telling a joke and I wish he would stop. (FYI, I am black). But I KNOW my dad is not a racist and I truly believe you could be racist against your own race.

If he (Michael Richards) was attacked by two Cubans or Muslims instead of two blacks, I think he would have reacted the same way.
The fact of the matter is that I am not fan of Michael Richards anymore. If you don't think he is racist, then he is obviously full of hate.


One more thing, about the word "racist". How many times have we laughed at jokes that make fun of other races? No matter how graphic or light hearted the joke is, I am sure that almost all of us have had a little chuckle here and there. Where is the line drawn? Is making racial and homophobic comments ever just comedy? Should the person be considered racist if their intent is to solely make someone else feel inferior? Based on that, I would consider Michael to be a racist. He was not drunk or high. He knew full well what he was saying and how it would be taken.


I heard Paul Mooney this morning on the radio and he said that Michael Richards, Mel Gibson, and OJ Simpson need to do a movie together called, "Three Men and Thank God There's No Baby". ..lol

[southernelle25]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

It could have been worse. He could have said it in Mississippi. I don't know whether he would have made it off the stage in one piece...

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

I have a problem with the wole calling for an apology thing. It irks me. I heard on the news this morning that someone was saying he won't be allowed back into the club until he apologizes and the african american community accepts it or deems him worthy or some mess like that. Why are we the only ones who are supposed to be given an apology? I obviously understand why a person would look to see how black people feel about it because we are the ones who are called niggers but you mean to tell me that no one else cares? Is it really like the rest of the country hears something like this and says "oh that's their problem"? That's a shame if that is the case, although I wouldn't be surprised. I just do not care for the concept that someone should force someone else who says or does something like that to apologize. What is that supposed to do? So many people call us that word all the time so it really means nothing to me if when someone who is popular or famous (even if you are a has-been) says it and is heard by many people saying it apologizes AFTER the fact. He said it, he meant it and its done. So what? The word isn't going anywhere, whites will always call us that, they always have, so just accept that you feel that way about us...period. This fake apologizing for this crap once you've said it and exposed your true feelings is making me sick! The more groups like the naacp and the so-called "leaders" of the black community call for apologies, the more rediculous it sounds and comes across because people continue to come out of their a$$es and use the word. Their apologizing for it doesn't change a thing. I think the anger and energy exerted at times like this should just be used for something more constructive.

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

Pretty much..

[Senusret I]

Brand new for the 07 -- Kramer's racist tirade, NOW with Seinfeld theme!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNmQq9v-4XU

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

I have a problem with the wole calling for an apology thing. It irks me. I heard on the news this morning that someone was saying he won't be allowed back into the club until he apologizes and the african american community accepts it or deems him worthy or some mess like that. Why are we the only ones who are supposed to be given an apology? I obviously understand why a person would look to see how black people feel about it because we are the ones who are called niggers but you mean to tell me that no one else cares? Is it really like the rest of the country hears something like this and says "oh that's their problem"? That's a shame if that is the case, although I wouldn't be surprised. I just do not care for the concept that someone should force someone else who says or does something like that to apologize. What is that supposed to do? So many people call us that word all the time so it really means nothing to me if when someone who is popular or famous (even if you are a has-been) says it and is heard by many people saying it apologizes AFTER the fact. He said it, he meant it and its done. So what? The word isn't going anywhere, whites will always call us that, they always have, so just accept that you feel that way about us...period. This fake apologizing for this crap once you've said it and exposed your true feelings is making me sick! The more groups like the naacp and the so-called "leaders" of the black community call for apologies, the more rediculous it sounds and comes across because people continue to come out of their a$$es and use the word. Their apologizing for it doesn't change a thing. I think the anger and energy exerted at times like this should just be used for something more constructive.

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

I just thought I would point out:

1.) "whole" is spelled w-h-o-l-e, not wole
2.) "exposed" should be "exposing" here.
3.) "naacp" should be capitalized here.
4.) "ridiculous" is spelled r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s, not rediculous.
5.) This should be set in quotation marks, as you are refering to the thoughts of other people.

I know grammar is a big thing for you, just thought I would help out. Give me a call if you need to talk about anything. I'm here for support, always.