Do most guys actually receive bids?

[shinerbock]

In my fraternity, we looked more people we could be good friends with than "brothers"...I mean, we like guys who are excited about pledgeship and whatnot, but it comes down to if the guy is cool (can he hang out, drink some beer, talk about sports, politics, whatever), would he be a good friend/brother (take care of the house, step up and take responsibility, is he dependable) and other things, like how he presents himself, whether he's good with girls, etc...Basically, we look for people who instantly get along with the brothers, fit right in, etc.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

In my fraternity, we looked more people we could be good friends with than "brothers"...I mean, we like guys who are excited about pledgeship and whatnot, but it comes down to if the guy is cool (can he hang out, drink some beer, talk about sports, politics, whatever), would he be a good friend/brother (take care of the house, step up and take responsibility, is he dependable) and other things, like how he presents himself, whether he's good with girls, etc...Basically, we look for people who instantly get along with the brothers, fit right in, etc.

I think that's how it generally works in most places.

There are also a few chapters that bid just about anyone or anything out there, then try to weed people out during pledgeship.

[RU OX Alum]

To answer the question, at my alma mater when I was there, no. The vast majority went bidless. Like, way more than was acceptable when all the IFC groups had the same complaint that no one was rushing...there were 150 dudes that rushed that semester, less than 30 recieved bids, and every sigle org. issued a formal complait with the IFC office which led to a re-structure of how we did rush. This was in my juinor year, by the time I left it was a bit better, but not much, now they have more requirements for time conflicts, etc, but I still think that, no, you have about a 1 in 3 shot.

[shinerbock]

My point was that we're really not looking for rah rah brotherhood...We're simply looking for good guys we can hang out with, who can be an asset to the place, etc. We don't take the fraternity as serious as in other places, we're in it because of who we are...who we are isn't definined by the fraternity. This isn't downplaying the role of a fraternity, its just that some places put fraternal bonds on a pedestal, often in attempt to make up for them being terrible on campus. The whole "we're not a cookie cutter fraternity..." or "quality over quantity..." stuff, is what i'm talking about. Granted, I'm also not into being a huge chapter because you throw bids at people either, but regardless of how "quality" your brothers are, you're probably not a good chapter if you've got 30 guys on a major campus.

[UGAalum94]

Shinerbock,

What would your cut off point be?

I think, obviously, you need enough guys to be a functioning group: to afford a house if the campus norm is to have houses, to have decent socials, etc.

But a chapter that holds steady at 30 could be okay depending on what was average for that campus. 50 to 75 might be even better, but when the groups get bigger than than, it seems to me that you get some goofy politics going inside the group that men seem to avoid in the smaller groups.

A group of thirty guys could genuinely be friends and accept and share the responsibility of being a group, but with big groups it seems to me that you get a lot of guys who want the letters to pick up girls and the house to have parties, but they won't actually do the work that is expected of a chapter by nationals.


Why are men's and women's rushes so different? Why can sororities do okay pledging some people they may not really know that well, but fraternities only seem to want to give bids to guys they already know?

Should guys' formal or "official" rush be spread out over a longer period of time, so guys who go to a campus on which they don't have any connections have a chance to get to know people? Or maybe Greek Life should explain the actual policies of groups so they would know not to rush until later?

It seems to me that some of the guys who may go bidless might not be total losers, but they just aren't known.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Why are men's and women's rushes so different?

Fraternities are from Mars, sororities are from Venus.

Stupid attempt at humor aside, I really don't see that there is a "general" problem with IFC/NIC rush. Some chapters and/or some campuses may have an occasional problem or issue on "how to" rush successfully, but not "the system" as a whole. To be clear, there may be lazy chapters, but that isn't "the system's" fault or issue.

Why can sororities do okay pledging some people they may not really know that well, but fraternities only seem to want to give bids to guys they already know?

Again, it works. With all due respect, it seems all to often that NPC members try to mold IFC/NPC rush into their idea of how IFC/NIC rush should be implemented - i.e. "like NPC". And while that might (can) work on some campuses, for the most part, it is not needed. Remember that since IFC/NIC chapters don't have to deal with quota or campus total, the numbers don't matter the way they do with NPC chapters.

For example, on many campuses, IFC/NIC chapters tend to be smaller in membership number per chapter than NPC chapters. But often 1.5 to twice as many IFC/NIC chapters. This allows each IFC/NIC chapter to be more selective and invite guys that would fit with the rest of the chapter. The core of which is often guys already known by chapter members. Or referred to them by alumni or friends. (Hmmm. Sounds kind of similar to NPC and recommendations.) So ABC chapter might stay steady at 70 members while XYZ chapter stays steady at 100. Yet both would be considered "strong" chapters on campus.

Should guys' formal or "official" rush be spread out over a longer period of time, so guys who go to a campus on which they don't have any connections have a chance to get to know people?

No. It is not needed. However, chapters should rush (recruit) year round. And campuses should open up rush so that "formal" rush is at least twice a year - i.e. summer/fall and spring/winter.

Please note that for the sake of discussion, I am lumping summer and fall rush into one group and winter and spring in another group.

Or maybe Greek Life should explain the actual policies of groups so they would know not to rush until later?

Not sure I follow. But from what I gather, yes, it would help if rush policies are known. As an example, it would be good if men knew that there is both a summer/fall rush and a spring/winter rush. And that it is "ok" to wait until either to rush. Or to go about it informally. What best suits the rushee and the chapter.

It seems to me that some of the guys who may go bridles might not be total losers, but they just aren't known.

I concur 100%.

[UGAalum94]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought NPC rush was better. I actually like the freedom that fraternity rush gives groups as far as an acceptable range of membership size and control of recruitment.

I don't know of any campuses on which sororities aren't pressured to make quota, reach total or both.

But fraternities seem okay as long as membership stays large enough to be healthy in terms of future recruitment.

My last point was simply that it would be helpful for freshman men to know that at some (most?) campuses they are unlikely to get a bid if they go through rush without knowing people in the groups already.

Some guys might think that bids are extended based on how they present themselves during rush and might not know they really don't stand a chance of getting a bid if they don't know the guys already. (Particularly because the processes of IFC and NPC rush are presented pretty similarly on many greek life sites, even if it's clear that NPC is way more structured.)

If PNM guys knew that the groups were giving bids all year, then they would know to maybe attend a few things, meet some folks and develop friendships with group members, then maybe formally rush.

I'm just feeling bad for nice guys who would probably make good members but just don't know how it really works on their campus.

As long as you're at a school where guys from your high school attend or your dad attended, you probably understand the system and have connections. But if you go out of state and are one of few folks from your hometown, good luck!