UGa Chi Phis declared 'open season' on black women?

[Soul D-Psi-ple]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

but would closing their chapter really remove any ignorance? I think it would only cause more tension and set up an "us vs. them" mentality or continune or worsen it.

No, it would not remove individual ignorance, but it would remove an organization from the campus that represents ignorance. I can't really think of any accredited 4-year institution that wants to associated with that. Can you?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

Comparing the offensiveness of Abortion to that of racism? Heh? No point was really made in that scenario. Controversy surrounds the issue of abortion, but IGNORANCE surrounds racism and sexism.

Yes, the similarity is that some people find all these things to be offensive. Are you going to try and tell me that your being offended is worht more than someone else being offended? That's pretty darned arrogant.

People opposed to abortion (again, I'm not one of them, but I think this is a great example) believe that abortion is the same as killing babies. What you are saying is that it's okay to offend someone who thinks you're promoting baby killing, but an action which states nothing racist, but makes you feel they had racial intentions is not okay? Those are some interesting lines you've drawn there.

There's right and wrong. What they did was wrong. It WAS offensive if black women do find it offensive. That's reality.

So you'd like the government to protect you from things which offend people? Or just things which offend only you?

You're asking for the government to close an organization which can't even directly be connected to the event. Their only connection was that these (two?) kids were members and they were doing something which caused contraversy. So far, you nor anyone has been able to show the fact that Chi Phi is directly responsible for this.

You'd have the University penalize the entire organization without a shred of proof other than circumstance and speculation just because some probationary members did something maybe on their own accord which angered you. Am I not accurate?

[Soul D-Psi-ple]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yes, the similarity is that some people find all these things to be offensive. Are you going to try and tell me that your being offended is worht more than someone else being offended? That's pretty darned arrogant.
No. I said that comparing the issue of abortion to racism does not make any sense. Now, of course this is my opinion. People debate about whether abortion is right or wrong. When it comes the issue of racism, IT IS CLEARY WRONG! LOL That's what I'm saying.

People opposed to abortion (again, I'm not one of them, but I think this is a great example {if you say so...})believe that abortion is the same as killing babies. What you are saying is that it's okay to offend someone who thinks you're promoting baby killing (never said that), but an action which states nothing racist, but makes you feel they had racial intentions (it was inappropriate) is not okay? Those are some interesting lines you've drawn there.

So you'd like the government to protect you from things which offend people? Or just things which offend only you?

I could careless actually.

You're asking for the government to close an organization which can't even directly be connected to the event. Their only connection was that these (two?) kids were members and they were doing something which caused contraversy. So far, you nor anyone has been able to show the fact that Chi Phi is directly responsible for this.

I don't believe any org should be closed. I hate seeing that. They should be punished however.

You'd have the University penalize the entire organization without a shred of proof other than circumstance and speculation just because some probationary members did something maybe on their own accord which angered you. Am I not accurate?

Those probationary MEMBERS represent Chi Phi. There are some things that you just don't do when you are representing a national organization. Actions must take place. Chi Phi IS responsible for the actions of their PROBATIONARY MEMBERS and they must be accountable for them.

People! These are grown @ss men! Let them be accountable for their actions! LOL

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

It WAS offensive if black women do find it offensive. That's reality. Y'ALL do not find it offensive because you are not in their shoes. Many of y'all are quick to down play the situation when something like this happens....

Anyways, I'm not surprised by this. It is UGA after all.

Who is debating whether black women would find it offensive? I am sure some did. I am sure a lot of people who are not black women find this offensive. That is what makes this incident so dumb- that is was a pointless public exhibition that served no purpose whatsoever.

But this is a free country and this was freedom of expression- even if that freedom was exercised in the poorest of taste.

The punishment for being offensive is that your reputation suffers in the public eye.

Yet now there are people on this thread who think Chi Phi should be kicked off campus even though, a) we don't have all the facts and, b) individuals on this forum- myself included- have offered some more insight into why this particular incident, given the facts presented, is not a clear cut case of wrongdoing by Chi Phi as a chapter or national organization.

But to top it off, you have now said "This is UGA after all" and you are making a definitive statement about a 30,000 member University based on the actions of 7 freshman who made a very bad decision.

This is the kind of thing that kills civil debate. I and others have tried to frame a discussion around this which gets to very important issues about Risk Management and how an adult should behave when representing himself and another group of people.

And the response from some has been to say basically,

1. White men
2. Fraternity
3. Southern University
4. Guilty
5. Kick a whole chapter of a fraternity off campus (and out of school too no doubt if some of you had your way)

How does that attitude to anything to better anybody's situation here? How is that a rational response to what really happened here?

Last time I looked this was GreekChat.com. How is the turn this thread has taken doing anything to forward forum members' understanding and handling of a situation that involves a fraternal organization?

[Firehouse]

OK, the fact is that these guys are idiots, and that puts them solidly in a large category of college students. I don't know if freedom of expression is enough to get the fraternity off the hook for this aprticular act of stupidity.

However, it's interesting that had Chi Phi members been participatng in some sort of sophomoric sociology experiment churned out by some grad student, the whole thing would be written off as an academic exercise ("We were tryin to record the reaction of random people, man.").

Chi Phi would be wise to shut up, apologize to everyone, and lay low for awhile.