We didn't hang that flag, say fraternity/Greenville, NC

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Around here, SE Texas, the 'Stars and Bars' is the Confederate flag that has a field of red and a big blue 'X' going across the middle with white stars in the blue area.

People throughout the country often call that the saltire (X-shaped cross) flag "the Stars and Bars," but it's still wrong. The Stars and Bars is the name for the first national flag of the Confederate States of America, the flag that Shinerbock posted the picture of. It's a common error, but an error nonetheless.

Calling the Battle Flag/Naval Jack "the Stars and Bars" is no more correct than calling the flag of Ohio



the Stars and Stripes.

[sigmadiva]

^^^^ Thanks for the info. I learned something new.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I don't even know what you all are "debating" in this thread, so I'll just use this time to give my Public Service Announcement:

Slavery was about capitalism and not racism. This capitalism/material foundation is the basis for "colonialism" and an explanation for why there were Africans selling Africans into slavery. The North American racist ideologies arose to reinforce and legitimate the exploitation of cheap, slave labor. As time went on, capitalists used these racist ideologies to control both black and white labor (as a means of opportunity hoarding and a racialized split labor market, as well as to prevent the proletariate from uniting across race lines).

I think it's important to understand (historical and) social context as everyone is talking past each other. As you were.

Thank You DST for posting this and anyone who beleive it was not in economics, they should go back to class.

The common flag used as The Stars and Bars as the Battle Flag of the CFSA was one of many Flags flown by The Troops of the South.

As was explained, the Common Flag that flies is the one with Red, A Blue X with White Stars as the battle flag.

[PhrozenGod01]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that some black families in the South do fly the confederate flag as a tribute (for lack of a better word) to the South's history.

I know I'm late on this thread, but work got busy... anyway, I saw a music video ("Bia Bia") by Little Jon, Ludacris, Chyna White, Too Short, etc, where Ludacris is swimming with a confederate flag. Oh yeah, and on the cover of an Outkast cd, there is a belt buckle with that flag on it. Maybe it was a metaphor for something. As far as Black families, I haven't seen it, but then again I haven't been everywhere down south.

[Kevlar281]

Well this is a bit random but worth mentioning. In 2001 when the whole South Carolina Battle Flag controversy was making the national news many Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo Cook-Off teams began flying the Battle Flag as a show of support. Well someone complained and the display of any Confederate Battle Flag at the Rodeo Cook-Off has been subsequently banned. However, this became big news when people realized that a well known, all black team had been using the battle flag as their sites theme for years. I mean they had it on everything, their tent, front, pit, napkins, plates, cups, koozies, aprons, t-shirts, even a brand for their meat. That being said you can still see plenty of other flags with meaning flying high at the cook-off most notably Bonnie Blue and the Come And Take It flag.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

Calling the Battle Flag/Naval Jack "the Stars and Bars" is no more correct than calling the flag of Ohio



the Stars and Stripes.

An aside, but as memory serves, this is the only of the 50 state flags that is a pennant.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGod01

As far as Black families, I haven't seen it, but then again I haven't been everywhere down south.

I have seen it; in fact, I saw a Black man carrying a full-sized Battle Flag down the street just last week. I have no idea why he was carrying it -- he seemed to be walking to his car from somewhere.

Just goes to show how complex an issue this can be.

Originally Posted by Kevlaw281

That being said you can still see plenty of other flags with meaning flying high at the cook-off most notably Bonnie Blue and the Come And Take It flag.

As an aside, and for what's its worth, the Bonnie Blue flag was never an official Confederate flag. It was raised in Mississippi to declare succession. The single star was a symbol of state sovereignty.

The Bonnie Blue Flag originated with the brief Republic of West Florida (comprising territory in parts of what is now Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana) in the early 1800s, and it influenced the Lone Star flag of Texas and the Bear flag of California (and perhaps the flag of North Carolina as well). The popularity of the flag during the Civil War was largely the result of the song "The Bonnie Blue Flag" ("We Are a Band of Brothers"), written to commemorate the raising of the flag in Jackson when Mississippi succeded.

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

An aside, but as memory serves, this is the only of the 50 state flags that is a pennant.

Give that dog a bone! (Although technically the notch in the fly end makes it a burgee, not a pennant.)

[RU OX Alum]

What do the stars on Ohio's flag mean? Are they for the counties?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

What do the stars on Ohio's flag mean? Are they for the counties?

According to the official description, "[t]he thirteen stars grouped around the "O" represent the original states of the United States and the four stars added to the peak of the triangle symbolize that Ohio was the seventeenth state admitted to the union."

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

As an aside, and for what's its worth, the Bonnie Blue flag was never an official Confederate flag.

That being said you can still see plenty of other flags with meaning flying high at the cook-off most notably Bonnie Blue and the Come And Take It flag.

I don’t think in any of my posts I have mentioned anything of the confederacy. The first official flag of Texas was the Burnet flag. It was basically identical to Bonnie Blue except it had a gold star. Due to Bonnie Blue’s popularity many chose to emulate it by having a white star on their Burnet flag. When I see Bonnie Blue I think of states rights. Why you felt the need to “correct” me I'll never know. Especially since the two flags I mentioned were flags of the Texas Revolution. Hence their meaning. And on a side note the Come And Take It flag has a….single star. See a pattern? We won our war and will fly our flags.

/edit: before anyone corrects me I do understand that Bonnie Blue predates the Texas Revolution.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

What do the stars on Ohio's flag mean? Are they for the counties?

Unless they've changed it since I lived there, Ohio has 88 counties.

I've never liked that flag.

[mccoyred]

I am NOT even going to read all of this thread. I am only going to point out that this is the SAME organization that those lost souls at Howard chartered recently?

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

I am NOT even going to read all of this thread. I am only going to point out that this is the SAME organization that those lost souls at Howard chartered recently?

I believe you’re thinking of Pi Kappa Alpha.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I believe you’re thinking of Pi Kappa Alpha.

Thank you. I stand corrected. Carry on!

[FATALlady357]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

Shinerbock,
can you offer anything, specifically, that Maynard Jackson did to be labeled a racist in your opinion? ...specifically.

Maynard Jackson was an esteemed and well-loved fraternity brother of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., whose work on this earth did much to advance Atlanta as a city and the south as a region.

to those who did not know of Bro. Jackson's accomplishments and care for an unbiased view, read on:

Maynard Holbrook Jackson, Jr. (March 23, 1938 – June 23, 2003) was an American politician, a member of the Democratic Party, and the first African-American mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, USA. He served three terms, two consecutive terms from 1974 until 1982 and a third term from 1990 to 1994.

Jackson graduated from Morehouse College in 1956 when he was only eighteen. After attending Boston University law school for a short time, he held several jobs, including selling encyclopedias, before attending the North Carolina Central University law school, graduating in 1964.

He helped rebuild Hartsfield International Airport to modern standards, which was renamed Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in his honor shortly after his death. He was also mayor when MARTA began rapid transit service in Atlanta, and when Atlanta won as host of the 1996 Centennial Summer Olympics in September 1990. His term as mayor also coincided with the Atlanta Child Murders case, in which he played a prominent role.

He died of cardiac arrest at an Arlington, Virginia hospital after suffering a heart attack at Reagan National Airport in June 2003. He is buried on commons ground at Oakland Cemetery, on a plot dedicated by the City of Atlanta.

Jackson was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, the first intercollegiate Greek-letter fraternity established for African Americans.

Bro. Jackson was also a Prince Hall Mason as was his grandfather PGM John Wesley Dobbs...

It sounds to me that the young man who is trying to paint Bro. Jackson as a racist and wants to 'get out of Atlanta' just does not like the 'diversity' Atlanta has to offer.