Katrina, and the UN

[macallan25]

What an insanely idiotic article. Jesus Christ the UN is such a joke.

[f8nacn]

From reading the article it just expressed the UN's findings after being asked to review the circumstances during and after the events of Hurricane Katrina. Only people who have NO heart would say that the article was completely IDIOTIC! What if you were in that situation, how would feel if you weren't provided with the basic privilege of being able to leave your home! We have so much to say about blacks and poor people without walking in their shoes for a day!

All the UN can do is make a recommendation or suggestion (as stated by the article) - they can't force or MAKE the US do anything.

And in what way is the UN biting the hand that is feeding them! Personally, I definitely disagree.

[Kevin]

I'd think to myself... gosh.. if I hadn't dropped out of high school and had 5 babies so I could receive extra TANF benefits, I might have been able to afford a car and get out of here.

Or something to that effect.

Poverty is a choice. Sure, some because of their backgrounds are at a huge disadvantage, but there is still every opportunity for success. If you spend your entire life expecting somoene else to provide for you, from time to time, you'll be let down.

[f8nacn]

And just how ignorant are you! You are casting generalizations that are not entirely true for an entire community/people. We don't know individual circumstances of "all people"....you can't cast judgment on things that you have know knowledge about.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by f8nacn

And just how ignorant are you! You are casting generalizations that are not entirely true for an entire community/people. We don't know individual circumstances of "all people"....you can't cast judgment on things that you have know knowledge about.

Do all people have free will? I think yes -- and yes, that's a generalization. All of us of able mind and body have free will. That means that we can either take advantage of opportunities, or we can fail to. Any reason given for failing to take advantage of an opportunity is nothing more than an excuse.

How many of the unemployed people of New Orleans are still unemployed even when construction firms are bringing in as many laborers as they can possibly scrounge up from other states?

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by ktsnake

Do all people have free will? I think yes -- and yes, that's a generalization. All of us of able mind and body have free will. That means that we can either take advantage of opportunities, or we can fail to. Any reason given for failing to take advantage of an opportunity is nothing more than an excuse.

How many of the unemployed people of New Orleans are still unemployed even when construction firms are bringing in as many laborers as they can possibly scrounge up from other states?

Let's say my mom had me when she was 15 and addicted to crack, and has been abusive or absent since then. We live in the projects and I never finished high school and can't read, because when I was a kid my mom resented me more than anything and didn't give a shit if I went to school. Most of the time I was hungry, and I might have some form of mental illness and possibly diabetes, but nobody ever took me to the doctor so to you and everyone, I have "able mind and body." Now I'm 20. I have no education or skills. Please tell me what opportunities I have.

It's all well and good to talk about opportunities. You and I have had plenty of them and have taken advantage. That doesn't mean everybody has been so fortunate.

Here's what I don't understand, though. Say your home and everything around it was destroyed by Katrina and then you rebuild. Is it reasonable to expect any assistance if your home and everything around it is destroyed by a hurricane again in the future? Even I would say "no" to that.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

Let's say my mom had me when she was 15 and addicted to crack, and has been abusive or absent since then. We live in the projects and I never finished high school and can't read, because when I was a kid my mom resented me more than anything and didn't give a shit if I went to school. Most of the time I was hungry, and I might have some form of mental illness and possibly diabetes, but nobody ever took me to the doctor so to you and everyone, I have "able mind and body." Now I'm 20. I have no education or skills. Please tell me what opportunities I have.

It's all well and good to talk about opportunities. You and I have had plenty of them and have taken advantage. That doesn't mean everybody has been so fortunate.

Here's what I don't understand, though. Say your home and everything around it was destroyed by Katrina and then you rebuild. Is it reasonable to expect any assistance if your home and everything around it is destroyed by a hurricane again in the future? Even I would say "no" to that.

The first two paragraphs were very REAL and valid arguments. The same could be considered around the coastal areas of other US States...they rebuild to a higher level of flood resistance...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

Let's say my mom had me when she was 15 and addicted to crack, and has been abusive or absent since then. We live in the projects andI never finished high school and can't read, because when I was a kid my mom resented me more than anything and didn't give a shit if I went to school. Most of the time I was hungry, and I might have some form of mental illness and possibly diabetes, but nobody ever took me to the doctor so to you and everyone, I have "able mind and body." Now I'm 20. I have no education or skills. Please tell me what opportunities I have.

I've taken the excuses and bolded them. I've taken the things that are 100% your hypothetical fault and underlined them. In this situation, it was your own decision not to go to school. It was your own decision not to read. You were presented with the information that you mom was an effup, and you did nothing to make sure the same thing didn't happen to you.

Even so, at the age of 20, Job Corps (link below) is available to you.

http://www.jobcorps.dol.gov/

Remedial education and a GED are also available. It may not be the most comfortable and easy thing to do getting out of that hole, but it's completely possible.

It's all well and good to talk about opportunities. You and I have had plenty of them and have taken advantage. That doesn't mean everybody has been so fortunate.

True. I was just looking up my best friend from grade school on the public access court docket system (in Oklahoma, the courts take public access to a whole new level). The guy was on drugs in HS, I knew his sister Overdosed and died. He's currently involved in a simultaneous divorce and paternity action, but to his credit, he's not in prison. The guys parents were loaded, and he definitely wasn't dumb. So yeah, even the 'fortunate' choose poverty. And I'm sure he's got a terrific sob story as well.. his siblings were on drugs, his parents got divorced, etc. etc.

-- all excuses.

Here's what I don't understand, though. Say your home and everything around it was destroyed by Katrina and then you rebuild. Is it reasonable to expect any assistance if your home and everything around it is destroyed by a hurricane again in the future? Even I would say "no" to that.

If I owned a home, I'd sure as hell have homeowner's insurance. You're crazy not to. If I lived below sea level, or on the coast, I'd sure as hell have flood insurance. Living in Oklahoma, I'm going to carry tornado insurance.

I don't "expect" help from anyone. I don't think it's reasonable to "expect" people to give me things for free. I know that a lot of folks do expect these things, but as I said before, if you go through life expecting someone else to provide for you, eventually, you'll be let down.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by ktsnake

Poverty is a choice. Sure, some because of their backgrounds are at a huge disadvantage, but there is still every opportunity for success. If you spend your entire life expecting somoene else to provide for you, from time to time, you'll be let down.

That's a harsh statement. There may be every opportunity for success in some places, but come to Michigan and see how many of these opportunities there are. But I do agree with your last sentence.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

That's a harsh statement. There may be every opportunity for success in some places, but come to Michigan and see how many of these opportunities there are. But I do agree with your last sentence.

Last I checked, a greyhound ticket was pretty cheap. People move to seek out opportunities all the time. Are people in Michigan somehow not allowed to leave the state in search of a better life?

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by ktsnake

Last I checked, a greyhound ticket was pretty cheap. People move to seek out opportunities all the time. Are people in Michigan somehow not allowed to leave the state in search of a better life?

There are tons of people who can't even afford a greyhound ticket, much less afford to move or pay for a new place. I'm fortunate enough to have my family back me up while I look for a job, and I could never ever leave my family behind.

There was a story of a guy, a few days ago. He lost his roofing job in Ohio. He came to Michigan to find work. Long story short- he found 20some000 in savings bonds and turned them all in and a company in Troy gave him a shopping spree and a job. So yeah, if you have the means to get the little amount of jobs there are, you can do it.

You mentioned the construction firms that are being brought in in New Orleans. Are those firms hiring? That's a big factor. But I am curious as to how many of those unemployed have been offered jobs or are actively searching.

[shinerbock]

Poverty is not always a true choice, often times, however, it is. Thankfully, my parents would have never allowed us to stay in New Orleans during that storm. We'd have sold whatever we had, and if it came down to it, we'd have walked. One day I hope that people realize it is not the government's responsibility to make good decisions for them.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by ktsnake

Poverty is a choice. Sure, some because of their backgrounds are at a huge disadvantage, but there is still every opportunity for success. If you spend your entire life expecting somoene else to provide for you, from time to time, you'll be let down.

It is a harsh statement, but there's also an element of truth.

Some people are born into bad situations, but they can often be overcome.

Some people are born into great wealth and status and don't take advantage of it.

Some from both sides expect to be taken care of. Sometimes it doesn't happen.

[macallan25]

No, I don't have a heart for lazy, ignorant people that stayed in New Orleans in their shanties after being continuously warned that the hurricane had reached catastrophic proportions. Then, when their lives were destroyed by the worst natural disaster in US history.....they take the easy cop out and blame Bush or the US Government instead of looking at their own mayor and governor whom didn't provide for a mandatory evacuation until 19 hours before landfall and didn't fix the inaduquate levees which caused 80% flooding in the city, even though civil engineers had warned them in 1986 that a massive hurrincane would render them useless.

Originally Posted by f8nacn

From reading the article it just expressed the UN's findings after being asked to review the circumstances during and after the events of Hurricane Katrina. Only people who have NO heart would say that the article was completely IDIOTIC! What if you were in that situation, how would feel if you weren't provided with the basic privilege of being able to leave your home! We have so much to say about blacks and poor people without walking in their shoes for a day!

All the UN can do is make a recommendation or suggestion (as stated by the article) - they can't force or MAKE the US do anything.

And in what way is the UN biting the hand that is feeding them! Personally, I definitely disagree.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by macallan25

No, I don't have a heart for lazy, ignorant people that stayed in New Orleans in their shanties after being continuously warned that the hurricane had reached catastrophic proportions. Then, when their lives were destroyed by the worst natural disaster in US history.....they take the easy cop out and blame Bush or the US Government instead of looking at their own mayor and governor whom didn't provide for a mandatory evacuation until 19 hours before landfall and didn't fix the inaduquate levees which caused 80% flooding in the city, even though civil engineers had warned them in 1986 that a massive hurrincane would render them useless.

I do agree with you that the blame and anger was cast on President Bush without looking at the immediate persons in charge (i.e., Mayor and Governor); however, I will not chastise a group of people with limited access to funds, transportation, etc. I will not call them ignorant or any derogatory name that I've witnessed from others. No one knows the circumstances and what TRULY went on despite what the media portrays! I guess would have confidence in my leaders if they have provided a place of shelter (i.e., the superdome, convention center, etc.,) that those places will be just that, a means for me to escape without leaving the city. They had confidence that they would be safe there...it turns out it was quite the contrary....yet that is known looking back, not when faced with difficult decisions. How many of us would willing leave our homes, our tradition, our heritage? Most of us would wait or even attempt to ride it out because we don't want to leave that which we value.