School Daze question.

[shinerbock]

You continue to not understand what my statements were regarding...I have continuously stated that these are merely my opinions of what a "true greek life" is. Just as I think most greek life in the north east isn't the same as what I consider greek life, it is also different amongst NPHC groups. I'm not saying they are "lesser" greek organizations, I'm saying I don't really view them as greek organizations. When I think of greek life, I think of classic, historic groups of men and women on major campuses who use their time in the organization to form valuable bonds and to act almost as a sort of cotillion, to bring them up into a classy and mature adult world. I am sure that many good and successful people come from NPHC groups. I'm trying to think of a comparison...alright...when we (southern people) refer to greek life at big universities, there is often confusion. People will think we are referring to any state school, such as Oswego State, Wisconsin, etc, when in actuality we have taken the phrase "big state school" to refer only to the big SEC greek schools where classic greek life thrives. Likewise, I have somewhat taken "greek" to mean what I consider to be the truest form of greek life. Now that may sound selfish or narcisistic, and it might be, but it is just my opinion. Doing so makes no statements about NPHC groups, other than they are quite different than any greek organization I would be interested in joining. I know this is probably confusing, but it is just difficult for me to refer to NPHC groups as in the same overall catagory as my GLO, as I'm sure it may be weird for NPHC members to include themselves in any catagory with me. I think a phrase like student life groups would be helpful for me...

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

When I think of greek life, I think of classic, historic groups of men and women on major campuses who use their time in the organization to form valuable bonds and to act almost as a sort of cotillion, to bring them up into a classy and mature adult world.

My last comment (or at least I will try) many NPHC organizations do what you have mentioned above...

[shinerbock]

While I didn't fully understand your comment, I assume you meant that NPHC groups fit that description. You have knowledge of about it, so I assume you're right on some levels. However, I didn't know they put emphasis on that "cotillion" like education that I was referring to. We try and prepare our guys for lives in professional fields, as our alumni include congressmen, attorneys and corporate execs. While I have no doubt that black fraternity create attorneys and the like, the ones on my campus didn't seem to place the emphasis on that type of training like the IFC fraternities do. But again, that was just my impression. I'll keep you posted after I get in the legal world, perhaps I'll work with some black professionals who attribute it to their NPHC group.

[bows&toes]

Call me racist, but the black fraternities I have seen remind me more of a street gang then a fraternity. I know that while most people are too PC to admitt it publicly, they would agree with that statement. Are all of them that way? No. Are most of them? Yes.

And by the way, I can't believe you're actually bragging about founding dates in the 1900s.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by bows&toes

And by the way, I can't believe you're actually bragging about founding dates in the 1900s.

Is there something wrong with that??? Please elaborate on this...

[Xidelt]

I don't think bowsandtoes realizes that african americans weren't free or welcome in his organization at the time that many of the NPHC groups were founded...don't worry....it's just his stupidity and ignorance showing....



but he probably thinks he's super smart and cool.

[shinerbock]

See, this is what bothers me. Someone makes an honest statement, and gives credit to the idea that it is probably not that way everywhere, and gets called racist and ignorant...

Regarding your comments about blacks not being free or allowed to join...I don't know if that is the entire reason. The organizations are not simply black replicas of their previous white counterparts, but rather have entirely different goals and activities. My fraternity still has never had a black person, not because we are white trash racists, but because we have different ideologies, and just as a black person probably wouldn't get much out of our fraternity, he probably wouldn't fit in in our organization.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by bows&toes

Are all of them that way? No. Are most of them? Yes.

Now this is where you went wrong. MOST as opposed to MANY?

Out of hundreds of thousands of members at the undergraduate and graduate level, out of the doctors and lawyers and educators and leaders--you're prepared to say that MOST act as a STREET gang? A STREET gang? Do you know what that entails and implies?

Originally Posted by bows&toes

And by the way, I can't believe you're actually bragging about founding dates in the 1900s.

Yes--WE as black people are bragging about founding dates in the 1900s. It isn't a big deal to white people being of the nature of racial domination in AmeriKKKan institutions back then and NOW, but it's a big deal to have had blacks (and Native Americans) in institutions of higher learning back then. Not to mention having the resources and foresight to found organizations that are now hundreds of thousands of members strong.

(How did this thread get HERE, btw? Where did School Daze go? )

[f8nacn]

Not to mention having the resources and foresight to found organizations that are now hundreds of thousands of members strong

Against all odds the founders of these organizations prayed, pursued, and conquered!

[BluBlaZon]

Well I agree with DSTChaos and why is it that the people who have ONLY observed and are non-nphc talking about our mentality as an organization...you will find in the media alone that binge drinking and sexual perversion is more linked to non-nphc orgs. [not all], but some.

Of course we will celebrate our founding years because of the conditions that our orgs. were founded upon. Unlike some of these non-nphc people we as a nphc greeks utilize our orgs. for the betterment of our people [humans] through service and exhibiting love and embrace our memebership for a lifetime!

So to say that we are thuggish and a street gang....yes we are hardcore about our values that our founders have impressed upon us and as far as the street gang mantality...we do take it to the streets with our service, our scholarship and showcasing our bond.. don't try to make us sound negative if you have ONLY observed and not actually spent time with any members in a NPHC org.

This is address to the generalizations that were posted in this forum.

[bows&toes]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Now this is where you went wrong. MOST as opposed to MANY?

Out of hundreds of thousands of members at the undergraduate and graduate level, out of the doctors and lawyers and educators and leaders--you're prepared to say that MOST act as a STREET gang? A STREET gang? Do you know what that entails and implies?

I also said that was based only on MY experiences and that of my friends that I have discussed this with. Even if it is not true, the image most certainly is, and image is a big part in how people percieve our orgs.

[shinerbock]

Shortfuse, for the my sake, please read what I said before before trying to call me out. NPHC groups don't interest me. My reputation as a racist, however, does. So therefore, I will continue to respond to anyone referring to me. I didn't think that would be so difficult to understand...

Now did someone actually just say AmeriKKKan institutions? Thats the kinda shit that probably makes IFC people view some in NPHC's badly.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by bows&toes

I also said that was based only on MY experiences and that of my friends that I have discussed this with. Even if it is not true, the image most certainly is, and image is a big part in how people percieve our orgs.

Yeah so I hope this is a learning experience for you.

[Xidelt]

[. While I have no doubt that black fraternity create attorneys and the like, the ones on my campus didn't seem to place the emphasis on that type of training like the IFC fraternities do.

This is the ignorance I'm speaking of. You admit you have no real working knowledge of these groups, so how can you make a judgement on them? Do you know how they network with alumnae, how they run chapter meetings, or do educational programming? This is my first question.

My second question: Where did I ever refer to you as a racist?

[shinerbock]

I checked, and It was the f8whatever person who called me racist. I apologize, I was mistaken. You did however refer to my "stupidity" which I think you'd find to be quite inaccurate. Now, I still don't think NPHC groups put emphasis on the same things. Like I said previously, my greek life was almost to the level of cotillion...basically a display of how to be a professional adult in southern high society. Now, I'm sure the NPHC groups place an emphasis on being successful, but I don't imagine they place emphasis on how to act and live in southern high and professional society. I'm not sure of another way to explain this...alright, I'll try, and try without being offensive. In the circles I and others like me grow up and eventually seek careers in, class is of the utmost importance. Thus, some things in black culture aren't exactly desired in such circles. The idea of having a party entitled something along the lines of "Crunkfest" would be absolutely destroyed by our alumni, as would something like a step show. I realize everyone's culture is different, but what is perfectly acceptable in some may be completely unacceptable in others. I imagine these comments will provide for more claims of racism and ignorance from some on here, but note that I am merely trying to explain.