School Daze question.

[shinerbock]

Yes you're correct, I'm ignorant and racist. The fact that you accuse me as such simply displays to me that you are not only ignorant, but incapable of rational thought. I realize that literacy may not come naturally to you, but if you glance above you'll notice that I said I believed those organizations did have plenty of history. I'm not in them, so I wouldn't know exactly what that entails. Doing some research wouldn't really help either, seeing as my Kappa Sig friends claim they were founded in Biblical times, so I don't really accept overly much that I don't experience for myself. Also, I really don't care that much. I have other things to concern myself than extensive research of groups I'm not that concerned with. I'm sure they will continue on just fine without my interest. Sure, you can call that ideology "ignorance," but if not blanketly accepting what I'm given is "ignorance" then I'm proud to be termed as such. How exactly does this make me racist? Because when I think greek I think IFC and NPC? Well then fine, call me racist. I'm also a Republican and against Affirmative Action, so why don't you go ahead and tack on bigot to your unfounded classification of my personality. The kind of comments you've displayed remind me of the intellectual brilliance shown through comments like "George Bush hates black people." Keep up the good work.

[f8nacn]

To respond to your last statement...

For your information, I am very much a supporter of our current Commander-in-Chief, President George Bush! And no, I am not in the group of African-Americans/Blacks who have made and/or necessarily agree/disagree with the statement "George Bush hates black people".

But to the issue at hand, my point was before stating that only IFC and NPC organizations are the only TRUE greek organizations, whether it is of interest to you or not, RESEARCH will show you that NPHC organizations are very much TRUE greek organizations and do more than just party and socialize. As you have mentioned, your opinions were formed based on what you were exposed to. I'm asking you/more like presenting to you, go beyond your exposure level...branch out, research....That will help you in your irrational thought process!

You don't have to become a part of an organization to inquire about their activities, their service, their history. Of course, in all things there are some things that will not be available to the public...however, there is no doubt in my mind that they wouldn't help you see "the big picture", eliminating the clouds that stand in front of you.

For your information check out the founding dates for the NPHC organizations:
Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Cornell University, 1906
Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Howard University, 1908
Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Indiana University, 1911
Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Howard University, 1911
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Howard University, 1913
Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Howard University, 1914
Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Howard University, 1920
Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority, Butler University, 1922
Iota Phi Theta Fraternity, Morgan State University, 1963

Role models, community activists, entertainers, politicians, relationship builders, life changers, physicians, lawyers, etc....all have emerged through the influence that members of these organizations have had and will continue to have.

So my question to you...what makes the NPHC organizations any less GREEK than IFC/NPC organizations?

[shinerbock]

You continue to not understand what my statements were regarding...I have continuously stated that these are merely my opinions of what a "true greek life" is. Just as I think most greek life in the north east isn't the same as what I consider greek life, it is also different amongst NPHC groups. I'm not saying they are "lesser" greek organizations, I'm saying I don't really view them as greek organizations. When I think of greek life, I think of classic, historic groups of men and women on major campuses who use their time in the organization to form valuable bonds and to act almost as a sort of cotillion, to bring them up into a classy and mature adult world. I am sure that many good and successful people come from NPHC groups. I'm trying to think of a comparison...alright...when we (southern people) refer to greek life at big universities, there is often confusion. People will think we are referring to any state school, such as Oswego State, Wisconsin, etc, when in actuality we have taken the phrase "big state school" to refer only to the big SEC greek schools where classic greek life thrives. Likewise, I have somewhat taken "greek" to mean what I consider to be the truest form of greek life. Now that may sound selfish or narcisistic, and it might be, but it is just my opinion. Doing so makes no statements about NPHC groups, other than they are quite different than any greek organization I would be interested in joining. I know this is probably confusing, but it is just difficult for me to refer to NPHC groups as in the same overall catagory as my GLO, as I'm sure it may be weird for NPHC members to include themselves in any catagory with me. I think a phrase like student life groups would be helpful for me...

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

When I think of greek life, I think of classic, historic groups of men and women on major campuses who use their time in the organization to form valuable bonds and to act almost as a sort of cotillion, to bring them up into a classy and mature adult world.

My last comment (or at least I will try) many NPHC organizations do what you have mentioned above...

[shinerbock]

While I didn't fully understand your comment, I assume you meant that NPHC groups fit that description. You have knowledge of about it, so I assume you're right on some levels. However, I didn't know they put emphasis on that "cotillion" like education that I was referring to. We try and prepare our guys for lives in professional fields, as our alumni include congressmen, attorneys and corporate execs. While I have no doubt that black fraternity create attorneys and the like, the ones on my campus didn't seem to place the emphasis on that type of training like the IFC fraternities do. But again, that was just my impression. I'll keep you posted after I get in the legal world, perhaps I'll work with some black professionals who attribute it to their NPHC group.

[bows&toes]

Call me racist, but the black fraternities I have seen remind me more of a street gang then a fraternity. I know that while most people are too PC to admitt it publicly, they would agree with that statement. Are all of them that way? No. Are most of them? Yes.

And by the way, I can't believe you're actually bragging about founding dates in the 1900s.

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by bows&toes

And by the way, I can't believe you're actually bragging about founding dates in the 1900s.

Is there something wrong with that??? Please elaborate on this...

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by bows&toes

Are all of them that way? No. Are most of them? Yes.

Now this is where you went wrong. MOST as opposed to MANY?

Out of hundreds of thousands of members at the undergraduate and graduate level, out of the doctors and lawyers and educators and leaders--you're prepared to say that MOST act as a STREET gang? A STREET gang? Do you know what that entails and implies?

Originally Posted by bows&toes

And by the way, I can't believe you're actually bragging about founding dates in the 1900s.

Yes--WE as black people are bragging about founding dates in the 1900s. It isn't a big deal to white people being of the nature of racial domination in AmeriKKKan institutions back then and NOW, but it's a big deal to have had blacks (and Native Americans) in institutions of higher learning back then. Not to mention having the resources and foresight to found organizations that are now hundreds of thousands of members strong.

(How did this thread get HERE, btw? Where did School Daze go? )

[Xidelt]

[. While I have no doubt that black fraternity create attorneys and the like, the ones on my campus didn't seem to place the emphasis on that type of training like the IFC fraternities do.

This is the ignorance I'm speaking of. You admit you have no real working knowledge of these groups, so how can you make a judgement on them? Do you know how they network with alumnae, how they run chapter meetings, or do educational programming? This is my first question.

My second question: Where did I ever refer to you as a racist?

[shinerbock]

I checked, and It was the f8whatever person who called me racist. I apologize, I was mistaken. You did however refer to my "stupidity" which I think you'd find to be quite inaccurate. Now, I still don't think NPHC groups put emphasis on the same things. Like I said previously, my greek life was almost to the level of cotillion...basically a display of how to be a professional adult in southern high society. Now, I'm sure the NPHC groups place an emphasis on being successful, but I don't imagine they place emphasis on how to act and live in southern high and professional society. I'm not sure of another way to explain this...alright, I'll try, and try without being offensive. In the circles I and others like me grow up and eventually seek careers in, class is of the utmost importance. Thus, some things in black culture aren't exactly desired in such circles. The idea of having a party entitled something along the lines of "Crunkfest" would be absolutely destroyed by our alumni, as would something like a step show. I realize everyone's culture is different, but what is perfectly acceptable in some may be completely unacceptable in others. I imagine these comments will provide for more claims of racism and ignorance from some on here, but note that I am merely trying to explain.

[Tom Earp]

Why is it when someone makes a personel statement about not knowing anything about a specfic GLO grouping, the Race/Bigot card is thrown on the table.

I am always amazed by who throws it out first. Well, not really.

There is a difference, ideas, and thoughts of different GLOs will vary.

Congratulations on many NPHC GLOs who have been around for @ 100 Years.

But, some of the IFC/PHC GLOs have been around longer.

Now why dont some of you tell me about those histories.

Tit for tat as it were!

[Shortfuse]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Why is it when someone makes a personel statement about not knowing anything about a specfic GLO grouping, the Race/Bigot card is thrown on the table.

I am always amazed by who throws it out first. Well, not really.

There is a difference, ideas, and thoughts of different GLOs will vary.

Congratulations on many NPHC GLOs who have been around for @ 100 Years.

But, some of the IFC/PHC GLOs have been around longer.

Now why dont some of you tell me about those histories.

Tit for tat as it were!

Because I for one could care less about it. But, y ou won't hear me badmouth them especially when I never stop to see what they do.

I'm not going to toss the race card here BUT, it was an ignorant statement. Not knowing something is one thing BUT, to actually sit there and "judge" it is quite stupid don't you think?

[DSTCHAOS]

Well, DUH, the issue of race will be brought up when you liken predominantly black (or Hispanic) organizations to gangs. Some of you should not be so naive as to think that it would not be.

Now, to give credit to that poster's perception: All GLOs (that spans from Kappa Alpha all the way to Kappa Alpha Psi) are technically a gang when using the loose definition of the term "gang." We have colors, symbols, and a certain groupthink mentality that overrides the individual. I have definitely been around black fraternities and seen where the MEMBERS (which is separate from the ORGANIZATION as a whole) acted as gang members. This is just a reminder that our organizations have thousands of members from different walks of life. Some members actually were (perhaps some still are) gangs members--others just subscribe to the violently expressed group think mentality.

It also depends on WHAT made you think "gangs" when you saw these black fraternities. Is it because they were doing some things that are traditions to their organization? If so, you might want to get to understand the reasoning behind their behaviors. However, if they were doing some violent or lude things (the poster mentioned shooting--but are you SURE that it was the frat members shooting as opposed to some nonmembers?) that place their organization in a negative light and create an antagonistic environment, then you are well within your right to perceive them in a negative light. Just know that the college educated gang mentality exists in some members of Sigma Chis as much as it exists in some members of Omega Psi Phi, for example. It isn't race-based.

[BlACKROSE]

. The kind of comments you've displayed remind me of the intellectual brilliance shown through comments like "George Bush hates black people." Keep up the good work.[/QUOTE]

Well I am not sure were you are going with this Great Statement for I do not believe that the good old boy George Bush hates black people at all I feel that he like you are uninterested in the trails of black people and yet you shouldn't be see black people have overcome a many of different attacks on there character lack of or other wise and have continue to prevail see I was not upset at the thought that our President hates us for why would he. He doesn't care to learn enough about us as a whole to know if he hates or loves us I mean his MOTHER felt that the homeless children and dying elderly were happy to be left in the Astro Dome where there was no running water or working restrooms after waiting in water for five days, but being that he was raised to not be concern why would I believe that he had enough interest to hate, I feel that you also may being raised to be concerned on what you couldn't possibly understand!!!!!

[GIJANE]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Yes you're correct, I'm ignorant and racist. The fact that you accuse me as such simply displays to me that you are not only ignorant, but incapable of rational thought. I realize that literacy may not come naturally to you, but if you glance above you'll notice that I said I believed those organizations did have plenty of history. I'm not in them, so I wouldn't know exactly what that entails. Doing some research wouldn't really help either, seeing as my Kappa Sig friends claim they were founded in Biblical times, so I don't really accept overly much that I don't experience for myself. Also, I really don't care that much. I have other things to concern myself than extensive research of groups I'm not that concerned with. I'm sure they will continue on just fine without my interest. Sure, you can call that ideology "ignorance," but if not blanketly accepting what I'm given is "ignorance" then I'm proud to be termed as such. How exactly does this make me racist? Because when I think greek I think IFC and NPC? Well then fine, call me racist. I'm also a Republican and against Affirmative Action, so why don't you go ahead and tack on bigot to your unfounded classification of my personality. The kind of comments you've displayed remind me of the intellectual brilliance shown through comments like "George Bush hates black people." Keep up the good work.

You need to calm down and have a drink or two...It's ok for you not to be concerned with NPHC function and history. However, there is plenty of info on the web for those who wish to know our illustrious histories and so forth. We have been around for a long time and warrant respect. There are Masons and Eastern Stars that think sororities and fraternities are a joke because they have been around since before Christ and they have a right to that opinion. You are not a racist, so stop acting retarded!