Shootings at two religious facilities in Colorado

[DeltAlum]

At least three killed in separate shootings in Colorado religious facilities:

http://cbs4denver.com/local/shooting....2.607051.html

The first in Arvada, a Denver suburb and the second in a Colorado Springs church that had difficulties in the recent past.

Details on both still lacking.

[kathykd2005]

How horrible. What is WRONG with people?

[DeltAlum]

There is some evidence, according to today's Rocky Mountain News, that the two incidents were related and that the suspect, who was shot to death by a female volunteer security guard at the Colorado Springs church may have been the same person. Allegedly, the suspect(s?) in both dressed the same way and was a white male in his 20's.

While I understand (especially given the recent events) the reason for them, it's unfortunate that a church would need armed security guards.

[scbelle]

It's absolutely horrible to think that people can't even be safe in the House of the Lord anymore... I really do feel for the 5 victims and their families.

But armed guards??? Gives a whole new meaning to "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition." I'm glad that New Life had them, but I'm just in shock that it's come to that.

[1908Revelations]

I saw on the news that the second church got the guards after the other incident happend hours before. Yeah, it is really awful!

[GeekyPenguin]

My church has had armed guards for a few years now - we only have two, but we're located in the heart of the city and have had some problems with crazy people coming in before. We have a pretty large homeless ministry and everyone seems to appreciate having the guards.

It's so sad that this happened - it's the type of thing that makes you scared to go out in public.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by 1908Revelations

I saw on the news that the second church got the guards after the other incident happend hours before. Yeah, it is really awful!

I think they always have armed guards and when the word came out on the Arvada shooting, they "beefed up" security -- according to the Denver news outlets.

Having volunteer armed guards seems like an incredible liability to me, but I guess the events of the weekend prove them to be worthwhile.

ETA...The two organizations seem to have some kind of common bond (beyond religious). The missionary organization in Arvada has a "small office" on the campus of the Colorado Springs church, although there is reportedly no formal link between the two. It's a little confusing, and I suspect more will come out in the days ahead.

[DeltAlum]

Here's an update:

http://cbs4denver.com/local/shooting....2.607907.html

The alleged killer is thought to be the son of a successful Denver area Doctor.

He is said to have studied with the missionary group, but thrown out in the past and reportedly "hated" Christians. His brother is a student at Oral Roberts University. The boys were home schooled, and the family is said to be deeply religious.

[JupiterTC]

I was a student at YWAM Denver about a year and a half ago, and I knew Charlie. Tiffany and Dan were completing another school while I was on outreach. I know several current and former staff members who are grieving right now.

Just to clarify, Youth With A Mission is not a church. It is a non-denominational missions organization with bases all over the world. There are at least two bases in Colorado: one in Arvada and the other in Colorado Springs. Though they both operate as YWAM, they are actually independent from each other (as are all YWAM bases). I was under the impression that YWAM Colorado Springs had an office at New Life church, but I think the media says that YWAM Arvada as an office there. At any rate, a lot of YWAM bases team up with local church ministries to moblize people into missions.

My first thought when I found out about this was that the shooter is a bitter YWAMer. Unfortunately, my inclination was correct.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by JupiterTC

Just to clarify...

Thanks for that. A little clarity is certainly needed.

The Arvada Chief of Police announced late this afternoon that ballistic evidence links the alleged shooter to both crimes.

To add to the strange circumstances, a local pastor is the uncle of the evident murderer.

Local early Denver newscasts were really remarkable, with the head of YWAM internationally giving a dramatic live statement, then introducing the uncle who made a heart-wrenching comment on behalf of the shooters family.

That was followed by news conference comments of the security guard, who says she has a law enforcement background but offered no details. Her comments were also impactful as she described taking cover until the gunman got close -- then leaving her cover to confront him. She said (paraphrasing) that she knew what she had to do and asked the "Holy Spirit" for help and took down the suspect and has no regret. She spoke of being "protected" as she faced the young man with an automatic weapon armed with only a handgun herself.

This is the stuff of which movies (or legends) are made. The volunteer security officer is a rather striking blonde woman who spoke with remarkable confidence.

The alleged murderer apparantely set off several smoke bombs and had more than one weapon and around a thousand rounds of ammunition for them.

The pastor of the Colorado Springs church says that the security guard may have saved "hundreds" of lives. There reportedly may have been as many as seven thousand people leaving the church at the time of the shooting.

The two victims killed in the Springs were sisters, and their father was also shot and is in stable condition.

Besides the two police agencies, the FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives are working on the investigation. The head of YWAM thanked both communities and the Arvada Police especially for providing victim assistance counselors -- as well as local churches not involved in the tragedies for their support.

As seems to be so common in these situations, the alleged gunman was described as a "loner."

[GeekyPenguin]

http://www.startribune.com/local/12356581.html

There's an article on the background of the woman who ended up shooting the shooter - apparently she was fired from the Minneapolis police force for lying.

[DeltAlum]

According to news reports, she was fired after she allegedly lied during an internal investigation into whether she swore at someone while on duty.

If that's all there is to the story, I'll give her a break.

As the Colorado Springs pastor said, that was a long time ago.

I think her actions last weekend overshadow that -- even though it is now said that the gunman killed himself. In the end, she reportedly did face off against a guy with an automatic weapon and did shoot him several times.

It's also reported that there were two other armed security guards there who took no action. A man who was slightly injured by a bullet fragment who says he is a Vietnam veteran claims that he asked one of the other guards to give him their weapon so he could shoot the gunman. He has high praise for the former police officer.

One of the sidebar stories in today's Rocky Mountain News quoted a number of pastors (including our daughter and son-in-law's pastor) about having armed security people. One of the things brought up was the liability -- which I mentioned in a post above. It has to be huge.