Gays in fraternites (pt. 2) - Page 7

CrackerBarrel · #1 05-13-2008, 12:39 PM

No, I don't really care at all, it doesn't effect me. But to have that kind of reaction and then pretend that you're some great venue for discussion is absurd.

Kevin · #2 05-13-2008, 12:42 PM

Pledgetrainer, as long as you don't post patently offensive racist garbage, I think we'll be just fine.

CrackerBarrel · #3 05-13-2008, 12:44 PM

Well, then I'll do the brief on that.

Supporting yourself by just your elbows and the tips of your toes for a long period of time.

MissBoggzz · #4 05-13-2008, 12:57 PM

HmmMmm I personally think gay guys are awesome. I seem to find that for the most part they are more loyal to their friends and by far more genuine. Not to say that any straight guy isn't, but that's a personal opinion of the many guy friends I have. Now I also know a lot of gay guys who are very dramatic and quite frankly anyoing. I don't associate myself with them. Not every gay person is the same just like not every straight person is the same. If you're going to dislike someone just for being gay (different), whether you believe it to be by choice or by genetics, then do u dislike and disapprove of every single persn who is not 100% like you? I think it's unfair that many fraternities don't even consider gay people to obtain brotherhood. Why did you join a fraternity? Or why did you want to jon one? I'll bet you 9 of every 10 gay guys will give you the same answer to that question. Thankfully where I live, people who are different are accepted just as easily as those who are the same. I know at least 3 fraternity brothers who are openly gay and whom are well respected and accepted. Needles to say all my sisters love them and their house is more popular with the girls.

CrackerBarrel · #5 05-13-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBoggzz

HmmMmm I personally think gay guys are awesome. I seem to find that for the most part they are more loyal to their friends and by far more genuine. Not to say that any straight guy isn't, but that's a personal opinion of the many guy friends I have. Now I also know a lot of gay guys who are very dramatic and quite frankly anyoing. I don't associate myself with them. Not every gay person is the same just like not every straight person is the same. If you're going to dislike someone just for being gay (different), whether you believe it to be by choice or by genetics, then do u dislike and disapprove of every single persn who is not 100% like you? I think it's unfair that many fraternities don't even consider gay people to obtain brotherhood. Why did you join a fraternity? Or why did you want to jon one? I'll bet you 9 of every 10 gay guys will give you the same answer to that question. Thankfully where I live, people who are different are accepted just as easily as those who are the same. I know at least 3 fraternity brothers who are openly gay and whom are well respected and accepted. Needles to say all my sisters love them and their house is more popular with the girls.

I joined a fraternity to be around people who had the same interests, goals and background as me. If that is exclusionary by its very nature, so be it. It's human nature to want to be around people you have something in common with, and it's not the job of my fraternity to go around making people feel more accepted.

My fraternity doesn't let people in just because they want to be one of us/hang out with us, we have to want to be around them too.

Pledgetrainer · #6 05-13-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

I joined a fraternity to be around people who had the same interests, goals and background as me. If that is exclusionary by its very nature, so be it. It's human nature to want to be around people you have something in common with, and it's not the job of my fraternity to go around making people feel more accepted.

My fraternity doesn't let people in just because they want to be one of us/hang out with us, we have to want to be around them too.

Agreed. Maybe the gay guys I know are unusually stereotypical, but from my experience they wouldn't particularly like the fraternity atmosphere either. People should have the basic right to form bonds with those they feel naturally comfortable with, and it's not good for anybody to force the issue.

MissBoggzz · #7 05-13-2008, 01:07 PM

So you're saying if these people hid the truth, for the rest of their lives, and never told anyone they were gay, and fit perfectly with your fraternity you'd have no problem with them? But the second the issue of them being gay arises they're automatically discriminated against. I understand the whole issue of being confortable with them (actually not personaly I don't because I'm not a guy so I can't fully understand what living with a gay guy and being male is like) and I'm certain it must be difficult. However I highly doubt you and every singe one of your brothers is 100% alike in every way. There has to be some differences amongst you and your brothers whether great or not.

CrackerBarrel · #8 05-13-2008, 01:10 PM

There are differences, but it's a group for people who are, similar-minded, maybe? I don't know the best way to word it, but it's a group of people that I'm comfortable living with and being around for a huge percentage of my time. If there are groups of people that the house isn't comfortable spending all their time with some may call it discrimination, but I'd say that's just the nature of the beast.

Pledgetrainer · #9 05-13-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBoggzz

So you're saying if these people hid the truth, for the rest of their lives, and never told anyone they were gay, and fit perfectly with your fraternity you'd have no problem with them? But the second the issue of them being gay arises they're automatically discriminated against. I understand the whole issue of being confortable with them (actually not personaly I don't because I'm not a guy so I can't fully understand what living with a gay guy and being male is like) and I'm certain it must be difficult. However I highly doubt you and every singe one of your brothers is 100% alike in every way. There has to be some differences amongst you and your brothers whether great or not.

Until I see that sort of issue actually happen, and not just forum posts saying "we had a brother who everyone loved and then he came out and stayed exactly the same," it's not worth hypothetically discussing. No, theoretically the label shouldn't matter, but I've HONESTLY never seen a gay guy with a personality that would fit into a standard fraternity or who I would believe would even enjoy the experience. I'm sure they can find a place to belong, and I wish them well, but it wouldn't work well in a typical fraternity.

MissBoggzz · #10 05-13-2008, 01:18 PM

I agree with what you're saying plaedgetrainer but in the instance that they weren't "unusually stereotypical" and they were more like you and your brothers, despite living with them because I can only imagine how uncomfy that might get, would you have any issue with letting them in your fraternity?

Pledgetrainer · #11 05-13-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBoggzz

I agree with what you're saying plaedgetrainer but in the instance that they weren't "unusually stereotypical" and they were more like you and your brothers, despite living with them because I can only imagine how uncomfy that might get, would you have any issue with letting them in your fraternity?

In pure theoretical principle, there wouldn't be an issue. In practice, it would simply be down to the comfort issue and given my admittedly traditional experience of fraternity life, I would be skeptical that it would work out to everybody's satisfaction...it's hard to picture when I'm working from a purely theoretical perspective.

CrackerBarrel · #12 05-13-2008, 01:30 PM

Another issue would be that we are a "Christian fraternity," and the morals that our fraternity professes to stand for would be considered by many (not me, but a lot of my brothers) to be counter to homosexuality.

MissBoggzz · #13 05-13-2008, 01:41 PM

Okay that's respectable. I just feel that it's unfair that many gay people are not as accepted as straight people. I know there are several fraternities which have no problems with it. Or in certain cases it goes against the believes and practices of the fraternity. However what bothers me most is that people are so strongly against it and won't even bother giving these people a chance.

Kevin · #14 05-13-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBoggzz

Okay that's respectable. I just feel that it's unfair that many gay people are not as accepted as straight people. I know there are several fraternities which have no problems with it. Or in certain cases it goes against the believes and practices of the fraternity. However what bothers me most is that people are so strongly against it and won't even bother giving these people a chance.

I wouldn't say "whole fraternities" are okay with anything.

I imagine my organization's membership selection criteria is not the same at Dartmouth as it is at Auburn.

MissBoggzz · #15 05-13-2008, 02:22 PM

My mistake your right. If at best a chapter but even that is saying too much. there will always be at least one person who will disagree with the majority