The Hazing Tradition

[macallan25]

Hey Tom, my post was not stupid or ignorant. Don't ever talk to me about that you rambling, drunk bafoon.

I didn't say a single thing that you typed or asked. I never said a single chapter is bigger than the whole. I never said we should say "screw you" to the nationals.

Damn you're an idiot.

[gee_ess]

Does no one see this as I do? I think it is a simple case of national working to improve their organizations, align them with the 21st century, evolve into a better fraternal brotherhood. And, the chapters are rebelling because they don't like being told they have to change or modify what they have been doing for the past gazillion years. That's it. Plain and simple.

It already happened to the NPC groups and we all survived, heck, we're thriving.

[gee_ess]

Okay, I have heard bowsandtoes explain the issues with one fraternity - and it was a fairly good explanation of why members are struggling with the changes. But what of the others that are all going to he#@ in a handbasket as you say?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

Okay, I have heard bowsandtoes explain the issues with one fraternity - and it was a fairly good explanation of why members are struggling with the changes. But what of the others that are all going to he#@ in a handbasket as you say?

I think that he means that some of the others are adapting similar programs. I have some of the issues with our own Advantage program - which is a lot about completing goals on your own - which we went to after our previous pledge program, which was group group group 24/7. A good pledge program should be a mix of individual challenges and group challenges - not just one or the other.

@DSTChaos - yes, there used to not be such a thing as standardized pledge programs. As long as you passed the membership exam, you were good to go. The only pledging material we had from our national office when I pledged (mid 80s) was our Encounter book, which told our history, had a list of our chapters, a list of the other NPC groups w/ their colors/mascots/etc, a list of NIC groups, and a basic summary of what sorority life was like. It was around 40 pages long. The Advantage materials now are prob a 200 page book with activities, a member educator's guide....I could go on but you get the idea.

[Kevin]

I agree, BMP is ridiculous.

I'm glad that Sig Ep is the exception, not the rule. I think there's ample middle ground between traditional pledging and BMP. I think the more successful national organizations are going to create programming which aims at that area.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by 33girl

@DSTChaos - yes, there used to not be such a thing as standardized pledge programs. As long as you passed the membership exam, you were good to go. The only pledging material we had from our national office when I pledged (mid 80s) was our Encounter book, which told our history, had a list of our chapters, a list of the other NPC groups w/ their colors/mascots/etc, a list of NIC groups, and a basic summary of what sorority life was like. It was around 40 pages long. The Advantage materials now are prob a 200 page book with activities, a member educator's guide....I could go on but you get the idea.

Was this a free-for-all or were there just different (and seemingly more lenient) regulations and restrictions, though?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Was this a free-for-all or were there just different (and seemingly more lenient) regulations and restrictions, though?

I think that we had to send a copy of our pledge program to HQ, but other than that...it was definitely more lenient.

Of course I'm only speaking for my group....other NPCs might have done something more uniform.

[macallan25]

It'll work out fine.

[Day13]

You know it may be all this cramming for exams but this debate of dropping nationals and focusing on the chapter reminds me of a small event that happened before.

American Civil War.


Little conflict, anyone heard of it? The confederate south (SEC or what have you)wanted power to focus more on the individual state (chapter) instead of having a national government (HQ) that was miles away reform how things have always been in their respective state (chapter).

I understand the appreciation of seeing all that has come before you on worked on the national organization to allow your chapter to be there. But when you are a chapter that is 75+ years old your chapter probably has a pretty rich history of its own.

A simple example. Imagine if the NIC told a fraternity how things were going to be. Your fraternity would be pissed and say that is just not how we do things and possibly disaffiliate. (Phi Delt anyone?)

-------

I personally don't care if those chapters do or don't disaffiliate but I see why they would favor "Chapter Rights" and a confederal style of gov't.

[Elephant Walk]

That's somewhat it, honestly.

And I did read the rules. SAE got off scott-free. Which is good, but it proves my points. Strong chapters will not get taken down in the South.

Very little of those things that were written down are actually going to be followed through with. Maybe for a year or so.

[SWTXBelle]

Just a little historical aside - The War Between the States did not, alas, end up well for those who wanted to emphasize state's rights over centralized federal government. They were crushed by sheer numbers and resources. . .
( and NO - I'm not really continuing the analogy. I don't think . . . I don't know enough either way to be able to authoritatively say. But the analogy might not be the BEST if you are in favor of local chapter vs. nationals.)

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Just a little historical aside - The War Between the States did not, alas, end up well for those who wanted to emphasize state's rights over centralized federal government. They were crushed by sheer numbers and resources. . .
( and NO - I'm not really continuing the analogy. I don't think . . . I don't know enough either way to be able to authoritatively say. But the analogy might not be the BEST if you are in favor of local chapter vs. nationals.)

SWTXBelle;
I agree with you.
I was just about the post a little different analogy that takes yours one step farther.
The chapters could be the Native-American Tribes/Nations during the War between the States.
Particularly if they go local.

[Day13]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

They were crushed by sheer numbers and resources. . .
( and NO - I'm not really continuing the analogy. I don't think . . . I don't know enough either way to be able to authoritatively say. But the analogy might not be the BEST if you are in favor of local chapter vs. nationals.)

Actually, the South wasn't crushed. They were defeated certainly, yes, but crushed is quite the hyperbole. Most of the victories come from the eastern side of the states (once again I will point out the SEC part).

And if you are in favor of local chapters (seceding) against their nationals it really is a good analogy in my opinion. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and now we have a Federalist government with shared powers between states rights and central government. If the locals talk to nationals about abandoning them they may be treated with disdain, but conversely, they might be able to get nationals to realize their problems they have with them.

/Analogy and History Lessons.
//Still not favoring one side or the other, just sparking discussion.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Day13

Actually, the South wasn't crushed. They were defeated certainly, yes, but crushed is quite the hyperbole. Most of the victories come from the eastern side of the states (once again I will point out the SEC part).

And if you are in favor of local chapters (seceding) against their nationals it really is a good analogy in my opinion. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and now we have a Federalist government with shared powers between states rights and central government. If the locals talk to nationals about abandoning them they may be treated with disdain, but conversely, they might be able to get nationals to realize their problems they have with them.

/Analogy and History Lessons.
//Still not favoring one side or the other, just sparking discussion.

Given what the Southern economy looked like , I'd say "crushed" was a fair term. From a purely military standpoint, I see your point. Mine was simply that the analogy wasn't perhaps the best IF you were in support of local autonomy.

And it's true, Tom -"when ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise." So I'm happy for your bliss, Mr. Earp

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

And I did read the rules. SAE got off scott-free. Which is good, but it proves my points. Strong chapters will not get taken down in the South.

.

EW, you still did not get it. You are so hung up on National/School matters, you seem to over look the fact that there are also Govermental agencies that have an interest in GLO's.
Once again I do have to ask you: Did you change schools once again? As you always seem to know every thing about anything at every GLO, at every campus, in every State.