Obama tackles race anger in major speech

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

In reality it is not a big deal. I also agree with Shinerbock that it affects Obama's better judgment. Why the media would make a big deal out of this lunacy is very interest.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

In reality it is not a big deal. I also agree with Shinerbock that it affects Obama's better judgment. Why the media would make a big deal out of this lunacy is very interest.

For some reason, a batshit crazy racist preacher, whose faithful includes a Presedential candidate for 20 years, yelling "God Damn America" from the pulpit among other things seems like it would be a pretty big deal in terms of media attention.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by macallan25

For some reason, a batshit crazy racist preacher, whose faithful includes a Presedential candidate for 20 years, yelling "God Damn America" from the pulpit among other things seems like it would be a pretty big deal in terms of media attention.

But mac sweetie,

There have been others batchit crazy racist preachers who have actually been presidential candidates that yell all kinds of craziness from the bully pulpit that don't get nearly as much media attention...

Besides, my question was how come the media NEEDED to amplify this kind of thing--other than being politically motivated?

Was what Rev RUN DMC Wright all that life altering for say, someone such as yourself? It is not going to change who you are going to vote for, really?

[NewBee]

I would say to anyone who thought that Rev. Wright was racist and is open enough to do so, to go on CNN and look at Anderson’s 360 blog and listen to the sermon in its entirety. I agree that Wright made some inappropriate remarks as his position as pastor but I honestly haven't heard racism. If anyone could point to something that was racist, please point it out to me. Unpatriotic, definitely but is there a sin in that? I know his comments angered many white americans and perhaps other races as well. But, after he anger has subsided, I feel people should look at the whole picture, and not judge Rev. Wright who has done so much good, based off a few ill-stated sound-bytes. I am praying that we as people all move to a more open-minded view of things that aren't like us.

[shinerbock]

I agree that the media attention is unwarranted in an ideal world, but it isn't unexpected or unfair.

After all, let's be honest, Obama can't have any realistic complaints about how the media has treated him.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I agree that the media attention is unwarranted in an ideal world, but it isn't unexpected or unfair.

After all, let's be honest, Obama can't have any realistic complaints about how the media has treated him.

How's your brackets going? My husband is possibly losing with 2 different brackets...

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

How's your brackets going? My husband is possibly losing with 2 different brackets...

I think about the same as most, perhaps a little better than average. Most of my misses are upsets, 14/16 sweet 16 teams remaining.

I was hoping Belmont would take out Duke, but it would have screwed me since I have Duke deep in. That said, based on Duke's performance I can probably go ahead and scratch them.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think about the same as most, perhaps a little better than average. Most of my misses are upsets, 14/16 sweet 16 teams remaining.

I was hoping Belmont would take out Duke, but it would have screwed me since I have Duke deep in. That said, based on Duke's performance I can probably go ahead and scratch them.

Who the PHO is Siena? And what do think about the Toreros!!!

And Vandy lost? WTH? And VNOVA WON!!!

[AKA_Monet]

Do the Obama Dance!!!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

No.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

But mac sweetie,

There have been others batchit crazy racist preachers who have actually been presidential candidates that yell all kinds of craziness from the bully pulpit that don't get nearly as much media attention...

Besides, my question was how come the media NEEDED to amplify this kind of thing--other than being politically motivated?

Was what Rev RUN DMC Wright all that life altering for say, someone such as yourself? It is not going to change who you are going to vote for, really?

Yeah I agree with you. No, what he said was certainly not life altering, at least to me. I will say though, as a white Presbyterian I certainly am not used to that kind of a church environment, so the shock and awe factor was definitely there haha. It's not going to change who I am going to vote for either.

As far as media attention, other than for political reasons, I honestly think the media was right for giving this some attention. I think people deserve to know that a potential President of our country has involved himself for two decades with a guy who obviously has some very questionable beliefs and some very questionable ways in which he goes about expressing those belief, regardless of the good that he as done. That goes for anyone in this type of situation, not just Obama. You have to admit, for some this was extremely disturbing and I have a feeling that it would anger a good deal of people if this came out after the elections were said and done with.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Yeah I agree with you. No, what he said was certainly not life altering, at least to me. I will say though, as a white Presbyterian I certainly am not used to that kind of a church environment, so the shock and awe factor was definitely there haha. It's not going to change who I am going to vote for either.

LOL: We Presbyterians of the Synod are not all that call and responsive... Not even Wesleyans...

How's your brackets going? How's the SEC doing?

[macallan25]

Haha, my bracket is pretty good. Only one of my sweet 16 picks fell. My Big XII has looked pretty dang good so far. Kansas State and OU have their hands full though with Wisconsin and Louisville.

I think Mississippi State and Tennessee are the only ones left from the SEC. Oh yeah, Arkansas too. I predict a UNC beatdown of Ark, Memphis getting by Mississippi State in a tough game, and......wait for it........possible upset alert with Butler and Tennessee.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

I have already posted a lot on this thread, but have been giving it much thought as well in recent days and your question gets to what has been foremost in my mind.

I think it is a very big deal, but not in the context of Obama.

In practical terms, I think this hurts him very much in a general election- but unfairly to an extent as I think my posts have indicated- but the fact it might hurt him gets to why I think Rev. Wright's comments are a very big deal.

The big deal is that Wright's comments are not all that rare and they expose an anger and sense of injustice in the African-American community that the rest of us rarely see and find hard to understand.

Obama is not guilty of a moral lack of judgement here. He is instead guilty of a strategic error in making his alignment with his church a huge part of how he expressed who he was. It was the same mistake Kerrey made when shrouding himself in the flag as a Vietnam veteran- though I would argue Kerrey did make poor moral decisions as well.

How many of you can tell me who Hillary or John McCain's pastors are? Doing things like this ties you to third parties and everything they may have said. It actually worked to Obama's favor, and I believe it was sincere on his part, but now it is coming back to haunt him.

But back to Wright- it is hard for people of my generation to understand the very real and justified feelings Wright was getting to with those comments of his. We were not around for Jim Crow. While the inequalities today are hard to miss, they are also not as starkly obvious plus many people- myself included- know a great many African-Americans who are financially and professionally successful and face just as much hatred from their bretheren for being "Toms" as they face from some white people whose brains stopped working in the 1950s.

I have tried to understand a lot of Wright's perspective- and I find the best place to look is recordings of old comedy routines. Sounds silly I know- but Redd Fox, Richard Pryor, LaWanda Page and Moms Mabley are 4 people whose words recorded in a different time have informed much of my attempt to understand why someone like Wright can be so incredibly divisive but also so right in certain ways.

The venue helps. A comedy show is there to make you laugh and so it is easier to listen to, laugh at- and then think about afterwards. Once someone makes you laugh, they can make you think.

But for people like me in my general background and age- to see a pastor express that same injustice in angry words is not only hard to comprehend, but it is downright frightening.

It is frightening because it is a rawer and purer form of the sheer anger that still lingers.

Worse still, one wonders how to deal with the underlying cause of the anger.

America's greatness is based on the notion that anyone can come here and excel. The American Dream is there for all.

It was there for the Chinese, Irish and Italians when they came over in the late 1800s to early 1900s. It was there for the Jews who came here in the first half of the twentieth century. And it is there for the many Mexican, Central American, South American, Asian and Middle Eastern people who come here today.

But it has NEVER been there in full spirit for native Americans or for African-Americans.

I think much of this has to do with how the collective general masses of "Americans" at given points interacted with these 2 groups. Native Americans were our fatal enemies, and African-Americans were our slaves.

And given how many other general ethnic groups have come here and eventually been able to assimilate- I have to think those initial interactions are the real key to what is wrong.

As much as I dislike what Wright had to say, the more I think about it- the more I think his words are important. And as someone who likes shock value more than most people, I have to appreciate his methods intellectually.

I still think Obama is caught in a bad strategic decision, but I have to admit that with regards to Reverend Wright my mind has been changed thank to this thread.

And yet the scary question still exists- where do we go from here?

I don't know the answer to that, but it is safe to say that guys like Sean Hannity talking about "Barack HUSSEIN Obama and his racist preacher" gets an A+ for ratings, but an F- for being of any real use whatsoever.

[AKA_Monet]

Sweetheart, I am so glad you posted this and have great courage to say what you think and how you think and feel.

Remember on GC we have several generations of GCers. Some who lived in a age that maybe your grandparents lived. Some who lived during, participated and died for change and some that are have never understood why strides were made.

You are a living witness now of that testament to history...


I broke up your statement and my comments to answer them there within:

Originally Posted by EE-BO

The big deal is that Wright's comments are not all that rare and they expose an anger and sense of injustice in the African-American community that the rest of us rarely see and find hard to understand.

How many of you can tell me who Hillary or John McCain's pastors are? Doing things like this ties you to third parties and everything they may have said. It actually worked to Obama's favor, and I believe it was sincere on his part, but now it is coming back to haunt him.

But back to Wright- it is hard for people of my generation to understand the very real and justified feelings Wright was getting to with those comments of his. We were not around for Jim Crow. While the inequalities today are hard to miss, they are also not as starkly obvious plus many people- myself included- know a great many African-Americans who are financially and professionally successful and face just as much hatred from their bretheren for being "Toms" as they face from some white people whose brains stopped working in the 1950s.

To tell you the truth, I never really knew young people such as yourself thought this way or felt this way... I did not grow up in a racial-identification free society. Your generation is probably one of the first that is the closest to that high moral idea. The one that MLK's Dream was really all about... The one where several Caucasian 1960's protesters are reawakening to who walked along side-by-side with African American protesters and other ethnic groups.

The issue is historical and centuries of outright bigotry passed on from generation to generation. Where the United States government sanctioned it and wars were fought against it. New immigrants in the early 20th determined that they would not live under it and either were absorbed into it or fought against it.

Originally Posted by EE-BO

I have tried to understand a lot of Wright's perspective- and I find the best place to look is recordings of old comedy routines. Sounds silly I know- but Redd Fox, Richard Pryor, LaWanda Page and Moms Mabley are 4 people whose words recorded in a different time have informed much of my attempt to understand why someone like Wright can be so incredibly divisive but also so right in certain ways.

The venue helps. A comedy show is there to make you laugh and so it is easier to listen to, laugh at- and then think about afterwards. Once someone makes you laugh, they can make you think.

But for people like me in my general background and age- to see a pastor express that same injustice in angry words is not only hard to comprehend, but it is downright frightening.

It is frightening because it is a rawer and purer form of the sheer anger that still lingers.

Worse still, one wonders how to deal with the underlying cause of the anger.

Rev. RUN DMC Wright's anger is NOT manifested in supremacy. He does not think he's great when making those statements. Actually it shows his insecurity as a person. Although it could happen, it would NEVER happen where he encourages a crowd of young African American boys to go out a think they can kill a whole bunch of white folks. Firstly, he will be cruxified and lynched in short order... If not that, he will be Bubba's boyfriend in prison very fast... His church is a "mega-church" with over 10K in membership. It looks like he is corrupting the poor and disenfranchised to buy into lunacy. Although he has community programs for his "flock"--will he lead them to drinking the red kool-aid? Or believe in the Hale-Bopp UFO? I don't know? But, I do know, I have been a witness to that kind of RHETORIC!!! It is comical to hear, but it really does nothing to help a desperate people...

Most African Americans are not interested in an all out race war genocide of killing White people. What for? We are no better as humans if such a war were to happen. All of us, no matter what ethnic group are better than that. Genocide is wrong, period. It is far better to communicate and work with people than to resort to violence and killing. Violence and killing has NEVER advanced the human ingenuity and nor exalted humankind's intelligence!

In the past, there have been GROSS offenses against humanity that have yet to have a reckoning... That is what causes anger, hatred and bigotry to last 500 years and the reason why folks fight for dumbassed crap over that time... But that is purely psychological issues IMHO. People say dumb crap to each other all the time--but it is what the offended folks choose to do with that pain in response that makes the difference.

If anything, this experience for you should be a lesson in "restraint" and what my MIL calls, "quiet diplomacy"--walking the hateful person through their logic and reasoning with them by calling on paradox... It takes speaking to elders about it and to practice it...

Originally Posted by EE-BO

America's greatness is based on the notion that anyone can come here and excel. The American Dream is there for all.

It was there for the Chinese, Irish and Italians when they came over in the late 1800s to early 1900s. It was there for the Jews who came here in the first half of the twentieth century. And it is there for the many Mexican, Central American, South American, Asian and Middle Eastern people who come here today.

But it has NEVER been there in full spirit for native Americans or for African-Americans.

I think much of this has to do with how the collective general masses of "Americans" at given points interacted with these 2 groups. Native Americans were our fatal enemies, and African-Americans were our slaves.

And given how many other general ethnic groups have come here and eventually been able to assimilate- I have to think those initial interactions are the real key to what is wrong.

Actually, I am seeing more young Asians coming to me asking questions. Amazingly getting it from Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese populations. I cannot tell you how many of these young people are hurt when they discover the brunt end of racist actions that most people like myself would brush off--i.e. epithets and racist name calling. I feel for them. In fact the elder Asians are starting to tell me things and I am myself is plainly shocked... Who is doing this to them? Not the Caucasian powerbroker CEO businessman or the elderly Caucasian grandmother... No... It's the youth!!!

And you had better believe me, the Middle Easterners do say things... They just don't say it in front of Caucasians. I am getting interactions with them ALL the time and I get into discussions with them often. When they see it, experience it and suffer from bigotry like that encountered in Jim Crow, they are coming to NAACP meetings and asking what can they do?

As far as Latinos--I have seen so much in my geographical area that is NOT right. The yelling at them because they are unable to speak enough English and are English illiterate. I, in my Spanglish that is really bad because it is not my foreign language training give them some assistance when I see it. That is when I see the smiles and gratefulness on their faces. At least somebody is trying in their eyes...

In fact, I am seeing new immigrant Eastern Europeans and Russians that are facing similar problems with educational assimilation as numerous other groups. They have similar concerns as many other groups...

So, that American Dream... Is just that... A dream... We have been UNABLE to fully realize that dream and it is full potential. A plurality! A republic! A revolution! My, my--what can we do as humans if we WOKE UP and found that dream a reality?

Maybe you should read Maya Angelou's "Dream Deferred"? And Rudyard Kipling's "If"?

Originally Posted by EE-BO

And yet the scary question still exists- where do we go from here?

I don't know the answer to that, but it is safe to say that guys like Sean Hannity talking about "Barack HUSSEIN Obama and his racist preacher" gets an A+ for ratings, but an F- for being of any real use whatsoever.

Well, Hannity needs some booty, period. He is all wound up tight. That is how you deal with Hannity...

Where you go from here is "quiet diplomacy"... Learn appropriate debate. Vehement spewing of rhetoric that never gets HUMANS far is far different from coming together for common causes that should inspire us all for 1000 generations.

My question to you is now, that you have seen what you view as hatred in the face, and yes, it scares you, how will you resolve to CHANGE it? How can you make a difference?

I am reminded I am African American every time I go in public. Most of the time, I ignore it and move forward. But, I am practicing "quiet diplomacy" in a non-violent manner... I see that humans progress further when I use teachable moments WITH them and I build more alliances that way...

Let me also ask you this, do you feel left out of somethings in regards to these issues? Do you care? Help me understand? I am just asking?