Why are recs absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others?

[WCsweet<3]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Thank God I have a double strand to clutch! Seriously though, it is different for us "old world" folks. We would know if they were estranged from that family member. And the chapters who really use recs know who their alums are and who writes good recs and who doesn't. I've worked many a back room at recruitment time in the SEC and without giving away MS information I can tell you that we can tell and we know and we discount some and some we give more "weight" to. It's not just filling in a blank with us. I know that's hard to understand for some people but for us, we've lived it all our lives and it's just part of the culture.

To preface: I come from a campus where recs are not rare, but not common. Less than 10% of PNMs had a rec my senior year.

Let's pretend a girl who I know fairly well is going through recruitment at [insert favorite SEC school]. I may not have stories about her, but know her fairly well, well enough that I would recruit her heavily for my chapter. However the chapter at SEC University don't know me from any other alumnae. What does the bold part say about my rec?

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88

Maybe I'm not worthy of understanding these Southern pearl clutching issues, but why would I care if someone's parent was found guilty of murder or something of that nature? That PNM may be estranged from that family member and likely has little to no connection to that individual at that point. It's not as if that PNM was the murderer! Perhaps that PNM wanted a new start away from those issues. What if the PNM had been a victim of domestic violence and the rec writer mentioned that?

In addition, how does the active know which to believe--the alum or the PNM? She likely does not know you from Sally Smith, and while you are a sister of her sorority, that doesn't necessarily mean that she trusts your information to be 100% accurate either.

Good points -- a PNM like that could probably really use a mentor or alum in her corner to advocate instead of send a negative rec.

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88

As an active in a non-SEC school, recs meant absolutely nothing to me. Sure, we knew if a girl had a rec, but I cared more about if that PNM was going to fit in with our chapter than if they had a rec. A rec doesn't tell me anything about that girl's personality, her likes/dislikes/desires in a chapter, or what she stands for as a person. Those are things that mattered most to me as an active, and I felt I could only find out through conversation, not on a piece of paper.

This is EXACTLY what a good rec contains. it is a written recommendation to join the group, AND also attempts at broadening the picture of the pnm for the actives. The standard rush application provides the facts - the rec fills in the blanks for the chapter. Anecdotal information, intangibles, personality traits, etc are all conveyed in a good rec because (hopefully) the alum is doing the early leg work for you. (not always, obviously, but a lot of the time)

And those of you from non competitive recruitments who keep telling us you didn't know what a rec was - we get it. But do not turn your nose up at the process simply because you didn't experience it. Neither the "SEC" nor the others are worse for it. It simply IS part of recruitment in this region, and the chapters find a way to make it work for them.

And one final thought - This very rec issue is also a product of the adult alumnae environment in the South. ( I am using the South loosely but am obviously talking about competitive recruitments wherever) Sorority is important in the adult world in this region. People do not graduate and never think about Kappa again. They join the alumnae club, and usually right away. So, it would stand to reason that a role for alumnae during recruitment would be strong and an integral part of the process.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

And those of you from non competitive recruitments who keep telling us you didn't know what a rec was - we get it. But do not turn your nose up at the process simply because you didn't experience it. Neither the "SEC" nor the others are worse for it. It simply IS part of recruitment in this region, and the chapters find a way to make it work for them.

Who exactly is turning their nose up at the process? As far as I can tell, we're all asking questions and trying to understand why they're necessary and what they do to assist in the recruitment process.

And those that have provided their opinion that they should be eliminated seem to have had some experience with them.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Who exactly is turning their nose up at the process? As far as I can tell, we're all asking questions and trying to understand why they're necessary and what they do to assist in the recruitment process.

And those that have provided their opinion that they should be eliminated seem to have had some experience with them.

Plenty of people have posted on GC in other threads, mostly PNMs, "I can't find recs and therefore I won't," or "They aren't common at my school so I won't bother." That's fine. I take issue with sorority members stating that their chapter wouldn't know what to do with a rec if they got one, contending they have no value, and theorizing that a rec could hurt a PNM at such a school where they are not common.

You know what would help? If each sorority providing training materials to all alumnae about recommendations, which includes a discussion on their purpose, how to write a good one, and how the recommendation is considered in membership selection. I think that having a "Recommendation Writing Workshop" as an Alumnae Association workshop would be a tremendous help to alumnae and the chapters who receive recommendations.

It would also help for the collegians to understand the value their sorority places on recs as it pertains to membership selection. I personally did not understand the value of a rec to my sorority until I was a recent graduate and assisted the recruitment information manager behind the scenes. When I was in college, recs were not the norm yet (that has changed a lot at UCF) and it was a big deal when someone with a rec came through! But none of us understood the value; just that a revered alumna had recommended the young lady and that we should take that seriously before we cut her out of respect to the alumna. Then again, we also had a sorority director who acted as a pseudo adviser at our recruitment and who would be very very firm with us about our legacies and rec girls. Not all schools/chapters are like that.

During college, you learn HOW to rush someone and the basics of member selection. You don't necessarily learn how all those moving parts-- the application, the legacy status, the recs, the interviews, the grades, the release figures-- all come together to determine who stays and who gets cut. Or if you do, it goes over your head or we might not be having this conversation. That sort of education would be helpful to collegians because they would take that knowledge with them as alumnae who end up writing recs.

I recall one chapter of my sorority who threw recs out when they received them because they didn't know what to do with them until they got a recruitment adviser who trained them. I was flabbergasted at this because the officers receive training at Districts and have sorority handbooks to guide them in doing their job, but human error or willful ignorance is as human error/wilful ignorance does. In the case of that chapter, the rec didn't help or hurt. The chapter still took the girls they wanted.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

This is EXACTLY what a good rec contains. it is a written recommendation to join the group, AND also attempts at broadening the picture of the pnm for the actives. The standard rush application provides the facts - the rec fills in the blanks for the chapter. Anecdotal information, intangibles, personality traits, etc are all conveyed in a good rec because (hopefully) the alum is doing the early leg work for you. (not always, obviously, but a lot of the time)

This section of the quote I copied was in reply to a statement that IUHoosiergirl88 made about looking for girls who fit into the chapter. My question would be how does an alumna know if a particular woman fits into a chapter that's 1000 miles away? I know that within my own GLO, I have first hand knowledge of at least 5 chapters. Each of the 5 chapters varies greatly in size and culture. Knowing this, I don't know if a student I was writing a rec for would be a good fit for the chapter. I would most definitely write a good rec for her. I know that I write good recommendations, my college/scholarship letters are very well done and organizations often tell the candidate how strong the letter was. But in the end does Polly Pledge fit into that chapter? If the women in the chapter don't think so, I am not going to be one of those alums who gets her nose out of joint if they don't pledge her. Sometimes the women have recs but are not just good fits for the chapter.

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

This section of the quote I copied was in reply to a statement that IUHoosiergirl88 made about looking for girls who fit into the chapter. My question would be how does an alumna know if a particular woman fits into a chapter that's 1000 miles away? I know that within my own GLO, I have first hand knowledge of at least 5 chapters. Each of the 5 chapters varies greatly in size and culture. Knowing this, I don't know if a student I was writing a rec for would be a good fit for the chapter. I would most definitely write a good rec for her. I know that I write good recommendations, my college/scholarship letters are very well done and organizations often tell the candidate how strong the letter was. But in the end does Polly Pledge fit into that chapter? If the women in the chapter don't think so, I am not going to be one of those alums who gets her nose out of joint if they don't pledge her. Sometimes the women have recs but are not just good fits for the chapter.

You make a good point but we are writing a rec for a girl we think would fit our GLO, not a specific chapter. If she is meets the GLO's criteria for membership at State U, then she meets it for Small Private U, too.

And, of course, you shouldn't get your nose out of joint if they don't take her. Ultimately, this is the chapter's decison. All you did was point out a good candidate for membership. They will know if she fits into their dynamic or not.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

You make a good point but we are writing a rec for a girl we think would fit our GLO, not a specific chapter. If she is meets the GLO's criteria for membership at State U, then she meets it for Small Private U, too.

And, of course, you shouldn't get your nose out of joint if they don't take her. Ultimately, this is the chapter's decison. All you did was point out a good candidate for membership. They will know if she fits into their dynamic or not.

I think this is what I take issue with...I really don't believe that there is that much difference between a good candidate for Kappa and a good candidate for DPhiE and a good candidate for Phi Mu, and so on.

Now, obviously I am not privy to MS, so maybe that's not the case, and each group values something different, but my general sense is that the vast, vast majority of women who participate in FR meet the requirements of all NPC groups, save for the obvious grade risks and criminal pasts.

[SWTXBelle]

If I contact one of my AP friends - women with whom I've worked for years in preparing recs - for information about a pnm you can take that information to the bank. All of the rec writers I know would NEVER write a negative rec unless they knew for sure there was a concrete reason why that pnm should not be bid. They might choose not to write a rec, but that is hardly meddling.
I am always surprised at the members who are unaware that a condition of bidding and/or membership is having a rec. Sometimes the active members aren't even aware of the fact that recs are required - they are handled by alumnae.
I think the solution is more education for alumnae (heck, actives, too) regarding recommendations and what they do and do not do. I don't expect the recs I write to do anything other than get really good pnms a foot in the door. I'm very proud of the Katy Alumnae Panhellenic's ability to help our pnms pledge. The vast majority of those I write don't go Gamma Phi, but the majority DO pledge.

[MaryPoppins]

We have seen women coming through at Ole Miss with several DUIs on their records. Sometimes those are on the letters of reference and sometimes not.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

We have seen women coming through at Ole Miss with several DUIs on their records. Sometimes those are on the letters of reference and sometimes not.

And then there was the PNM from great suburb in major southern city going thru recruitment at large SEC school who was hauled away from HS in handcuffs by the sheriff - and very well docmented to me...and the world if they just wanted to look. I wrote a no rec on her....both years she went thru recruitment. Obviously everyone else did too because she was dropped by all groups both years - including mine in spite of heavy lobbying of me by the the vp:recruitment as the girl had friends in the chapter. I stood my ground, they accepted it, and were glad they listened to me when no one else took her either.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by Titchou

And then there was the PNM from great suburb in major southern city going thru recruitment at large SEC school who was hauled away from HS in handcuffs by the sheriff - and very well docmented to me...and the world if they just wanted to look. I wrote a no rec on her....both years she went thru recruitment. Obviously everyone else did too because she was dropped by all groups both years - including mine in spite of heavy lobbying of me by the the vp:recruitment as the girl had friends in the chapter. I stood my ground, they accepted it, and were glad they listened to me when no one else took her either.

It sounds like you did the right thing by standing your ground on that one.

I remember my first time on the active side of rush -- actives howling to keep an adorable girl who had a C high school GPA. And I remember the chapter advisors explaining that we needed to pledge girls who would stay afloat and be successful in college. I also remember thinking they were kind of mean about it, since this girl's friends wanted to pledge her so badly. Lots of tears.

As it turned out, the alums were right. She pledged elsewhere, and was in school for one semester.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by IUHoosiergirl88

Maybe I'm not worthy of understanding these Southern pearl clutching issues, but why would I care if someone's parent was found guilty of murder or something of that nature? That PNM may be estranged from that family member and likely has little to no connection to that individual at that point. It's not as if that PNM was the murderer! Perhaps that PNM wanted a new start away from those issues. What if the PNM had been a victim of domestic violence and the rec writer mentioned that?

Exactly. I feel as though holding something against the PNM that actually has nothing to do with them or their character is going a bit too far. I have some family members who have done some things that I wouldn't like advertised. You don't get to choose your family, and you definitely can't control their actions.

I would like to think I'm pretty awesome and I wouldn't want something that a family member did to hold any weight over whether or not I was offered a bid.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I would like to think I'm pretty awesome and I wouldn't want something that a family member did to hold any weight over whether or not I was offered a bid.

This is why some young Southern women end pledging far from home, and not just because the academic scholarship was right.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

I remember my first time on the active side of rush -- actives howling to keep an adorable girl who had a C high school GPA. And I remember the chapter advisors explaining that we needed to pledge girls who would stay afloat and be successful in college. I also remember thinking they were kind of mean about it, since this girl's friends wanted to pledge her so badly. Lots of tears.

As it turned out, the alums were right. She pledged elsewhere, and was in school for one semester.

I've never had a good experience pledging a grade risk. Every year we took a chance on one because she was so popular, and every year we'd lose her because she failed out of school. Has anyone had an opposite experience where someone with low grades managed to thrive academically once she pledged?