Visiting Chapters Thread

Originally Posted by macallan25

I think it's a perfect question to ask nationals. I'd love to know their thoughts on how you should view the thousands of members of your organization whom you don't know from Adam. I'd be willing to be they would utter many of the same things that we have said here.........that you should treat them with kindness, courtesy, and respect. You should observe the fact that all of us share the same rituals and oaths that we took upon becoming members of our organization.

I doubt very seriously that they would be "disappointed" in the fact that some of us actually view brotherhood as something that you have to create between the men that you are around all of the time. That you have to work towards it to achieve it. You talk of brotherhood like it's just suddenly bestowed upon all of us at the same time once we become members of our organizations. It has taken years to create the bonds that I have made with my pledge/fraternity brothers. Sorry if it shocks and irritates you that we hold those bonds very dearly and aren't willing to just garner some random XYZ fraternity member with the same amount of deep closeness that we share with the members of our separate chapters. Members from other chapters have my respect and admiration for choosing to join our organization. They will all enjoy the common courtesy that I have been taught to treat all people with. Until we meet and get to know each other, that's what they are getting. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Please though, enlighten me on how to "get" brotherhood.

Someone has their panties in a bunch.

Obviosuly non-chapter brothers aren't going to have the same bonds as chapter brothers. My organization actually promotes chapters visiting chapters to meet our "other" brothers and expand our horizions. I have found more times then not, there was a bond by just being in the same fraternity. Not as strong as being in the same chapter but a mutual respect thing. I actually got to witness another chapter's brothering up ceremony and that was something I'd recommend everyone does. That was one of the moments that I got botherhood on a national level. But hey, we had brothers that only cared about the local chapter as well. I guess it what you want to make/get out of it. I personally like meeting brothers from other chapters. More times then not we have got along and treated each other as brothers- not chapter brothers but not as random people on the street either but rather as fraternal brothers.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

In my opinion, that makes them the founders of the organization.

They have great ideals which lay the foundation, but they're not my brothers in any sense that the guys in my chapter are.

I really don't understand the love-affair between Greek-Chat and the national organization.

Interesting. A lot of people are attacking you for this view...but go into the Sorority Recruitment forum and you'll see people saying a hundred times over that "people join sororities for the people, not for the motto/ideals/philanthropy".

So, by that standard, it's perfectly acceptable to not consider your founders or other chapter's members a part of your organization - you did not join for them, you joined for the people who were in it at your time.

It just strikes me as interesting because people are getting all upset over this, but yet why does it matter how someone feels towards his nationals if people are going to say it's only the people that matter?

..I hope that made sense.

[AOE2AlphaPhi]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Interesting. A lot of people are attacking you for this view...but go into the Sorority Recruitment forum and you'll see people saying a hundred times over that "people join sororities for the people, not for the motto/ideals/philanthropy".

So, by that standard, it's perfectly acceptable to not consider your founders or other chapter's members a part of your organization - you did not join for them, you joined for the people who were in it at your time.

It just strikes me as interesting because people are getting all upset over this, but yet why does it matter how someone feels towards his nationals if people are going to say it's only the people that matter?

..I hope that made sense.

If it were only the people that matter, then you wouldn't have to join a GLO with ritual and tradition--just a club with people you like would be enough.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I start a perfectly civil and reasonable thread and you run in, guns blazing, acting like I'm an arrogant prick without an understanding of true brotherhood?
Now THAT is unbelievable.

You're right. I reacted irrationally because I was in a pissy mood. I offer you my sincere apologies.

From reading the rest of this thread, it's clear that attitudes are different within the NPC and the NIC. I don't think anyone expects the bonds to be the same for strangers who happen to be in the same GLO than those for the members of anyone's particular chapter but the outright disdain that others have expressed is puzzling.

[AlexMack]

Here's some food for thought:

I have met sisters through greekchat and livejournal that are, right now, the reason I do not drop my letters and disaffiliate. They are exactly what I was looking for when I decided to join my sorority. Support, friendship, love through thick and thin.

I have never met these women in real life and I know that when my chapter, the women who extended me a bid, rejected me through no fault of my own, the closeness you guys talk about comes to me 2000 miles away. When I need someone to talk to, I call a sister in California.

Here's the thing-even if I was close with my chapter, I'd treat any sister I met with more than just courtesy and respect. So...is this just a male/female difference? Any other women feel the same way as me? Should we ask Alexandra Robbins? I bet she managed to get undercover in a fraternity house no problem :P

SEC-I had to go to a funeral recently. My great-uncle. Diagnosis of Alzheimer's last fall and he died of pneumonia in February. I'm really sorry for my callousness. There's been too much death recently.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Interesting. A lot of people are attacking you for this view...but go into the Sorority Recruitment forum and you'll see people saying a hundred times over that "people join sororities for the people, not for the motto/ideals/philanthropy".

So, by that standard, it's perfectly acceptable to not consider your founders or other chapter's members a part of your organization - you did not join for them, you joined for the people who were in it at your time.

It just strikes me as interesting because people are getting all upset over this, but yet why does it matter how someone feels towards his nationals if people are going to say it's only the people that matter?

..I hope that made sense.

I'll agree that almost everyone who joins an NIC or NPC GLO chooses which one to join based on which chapter at their school is the best fit for their personality. However, what [most] members learn and come to appreciate is that they joined an organization so much bigger than their cohort of friends, an organization that has continued for many years, and will continue for many more. That's the difference between a fraternity/sorority and a clique. Some people realize how special it is to join a GLO even as potential members, but the rest will realize it later, maybe after initiation, maybe after meeting members of another chapter at Founders' Day, maybe after attending Convention, etc. I guess there are some who don't realize it at all.

ETA: Probably 99.999% of GLO members are closest to members from their chapter from when they were in school. It would be silly to expect a member to be BFF with a brother/sister they've never talked to/met, and I'd think that most members would be courteous and respectful to brothers/sisters they are meeting for the first time. What I was criticizing was a perceived air of superiority of a poster's chapter over other chapters and the national organization collectively.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by PhiKapSkulls

Someone has their panties in a bunch.

No, I'm perfectly fine.

Obviosuly non-chapter brothers aren't going to have the same bonds as chapter brothers.

If I remember correctly you stated that some of don't "get brotherhood" for pretty much having this exact view. Pretty sure I'm not wrong about that.

My organization actually promotes chapters visiting chapters to meet our "other" brothers and expand our horizions.

I have neither the time nor the desire to visit a bunch of chapters of SAE to expand my fraternal horizons. I'm not even really sure what that means. If it so happens that I have friends in the same fraternity when visiting other schools on road trips......then so be it. We will have a great time.

I have found more times then not, there was a bond by just being in the same fraternity. Not as strong as being in the same chapter but a mutual respect thing.

If I meet someone and they deserve my respect than they will get it. I'm not going to automatically respect someone because they pay money to be a member of a fraternity.

I actually got to witness another chapter's brothering up ceremony and that was something I'd recommend everyone does. That was one of the moments that I got botherhood on a national level.

Don't really have any desire to witness initiation ceremonies at other chapters. I know the ritual. I've been through it. It's something that should be enjoyed by the chapter themselves. I don't need to see it.

I'm glad you "got brotherhood" though. You still haven't enlightened us on how to get it.

But hey, we had brothers that only cared about the local chapter as well.

Never said I don't care about other chapters.

I guess it what you want to make/get out of it. I personally like meeting brothers from other chapters. More times then not we have got along and treated each other as brothers- not chapter brothers but not as random people on the street either but rather as fraternal brothers.

You're right, your fraternity experience is what you make of it. Mine has been stellar.

Never said I didn't like meeting guys from other chapters. I've met tons of them at many, many schools throughout Texas and the South. That's great. They are SAE's. I'm and SAE. We are in the same fraternity. Perhaps later when we are at the bar we can talk about our crazy brotherhood events, or how fucked up we got on big bro night. Maybe we will exchange numbers and keep in touch. We say bye, we go home, that's the end of it. Now I have some new friends who happen to be in the same fraternity as me. What is wrong with that? I met new people and recognized that they are in the same fraternity as me. We didn't share some kind of enlightened fraternal moment, we didn't create some kind of lasting enchanted fraternal bond..........we made friends and had a hell of a time.




Good talk, I'll see ya out there.

[Elephant Walk]

The funny thing is, in bashing me for not seeking "international brotherhood" through visiting brothers they devalue their own brotherhood and thus would come under question the farce of their own brotherhood.

If you truly find brotherhood in people you have never met, is your brotherhood worth anything anyways?

Wow...you "fratty" types are really stuck on yourselves. Good luck with all that.

PS- You're not better then everyone else and people make fun of you just like you make fun of the "gel heads". What a tiny little isolated wolrd you live in.

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

If you truly find brotherhood in people you have never met, is your brotherhood worth anything anyways?

I'm not saying they're my best friends but we share the same fraternal values and rituals. Why shouldn't there be a bond? If you don't get t then you missed something along the way.

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by PhiKapSkulls

I'm not saying they're my best friends but we share the same fraternal values and rituals. Why shouldn't there be a bond? If you don't get t then you missed something along the way.

Yes there's some type of bond, but not one that I would put much weight on. I played football in high school, does that mean I share a brotherly bond with every high school football player in the country, considering we went through the same drills (rituals?). We're not denying that there's some link made by knowing the same secrets, just that that link isn't what we consider 'brotherhood'. Especially when as I mentioned before, there are people outside the organization that know the secrets, but that doesn't make them brothers. And I'd like to think that brotherhood means something more than a check sent to nationals.

PS- You're not better then everyone else and people make fun of you just like you make fun of the "geldheads". What a tiny little isolated wolrd you live in.

Come back in 10 years and see who's laughing at who.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

I'm glad not everyone is impressed by downright arrogance.

I don't see what the big deal is for a weekend stay unless it's really going to be a problem...like it's too hard to put them up for a few days or they might bring legal troubles.

[gtdxeric]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

I don't see what the big deal is for a weekend stay unless it's really going to be a problem.

A lot can happen in a weekend. One time, guys from a chapter that was visiting mine got in a bar fight at a campus bar... wearing letters. It's worse if there's no bond of friendship between the two chapters and the visiting chapter is in town just to party, and hasn't given the host chapter time to prepare or the option to decline.

With that said, the things discussed in this thread are decisions that only the President of the chapter has to make. For all other members of the chapter, whatever the situation, I'd say to be hospitable and give them whatever benefit of the doubt you think they deserve, but keep your eyes open. If you feel like it, you might direct them toward things you think they would enjoy, but that would keep them relatively out of trouble.

There's actually something in my pledge manual about this, I'll dig it up later.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by PhiKapSkulls

Wow...you "fratty" types are really stuck on yourselves. God luck with all that.

How exactly are "we" (I use the term pretty loosely because I don't know what a "fratty type" is) stuck on ourselves? I'd be glad to know.

PS- You're not better then everyone else and people make fun of you just like you make fun of the "geldheads". What a tiny little isolated wolrd you live in.

Nowhere have I claimed I'm better than anyone else.

Inferiority complex much?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by PhiKapSkulls

Wow...you "fratty" types are really stuck on yourselves. God luck with all that.

PS- You're not better then everyone else and people make fun of you just like you make fun of the "geldheads". What a tiny little isolated wolrd you live in.

You know what. You can go f**k yourself. There are basically what? Two or three of us in this thread that have had to pretty much constantly defend ourselves from the ignorant, unwarranted, bullshit claims that people like you make.

Once again, I want to know, how do I not "get brotherhood". How does EW not "get" brotherhood. You obviously haven't read a damn word I have said.

What have I said that would indicate that I think I'm "better" than everyone else. I have calmly and coherently addressed everything that has been said to me, whether legitimate or not......and all you can do is this? Tell me that I'm "stuck" on myself? I don't give a flying shit if people make fun of me....that's their problem.

While you're at it, tell me about this isolated little world I live in. Please, I want to hear about it. You are obviously man enough to talk shit on a message board.....how about you substantiate your claims.

If not then you can take your comments and shove them up your a**.

PS - While you're at it, learn how to spell. If you are going to feed me a bunch of insulting garbage, at least appear to be educated.