The link between Greek membership and social conservatism

[Little32]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

So again, I think it boils down to one's definition of liberalism and conservatism.

I guess for me this about sums it up. I think most NPHC organizations, and I single them out because they are the ones that I am most familiar with, are quite progressive on social issues, while at the same time having members that socially conservative in their own lives (which I think is what the OP refers to--the body of members). It certainly isn't a black or white issue.

[violetpretty]

There are two types of conservatives that we are talking about: people who follow their own moral code, and people who vote for Republicans.

I identify as politically liberal. I generally agree with Democrats. However, I didn't drink at all until I turned 21 and am not a huge partier. I also refuse to have sex with someone with whom I am in love and with whom I am in a committed relationship. Mind you, this code that I established for myself has nothing to do with religion. Some people think that's conservative.

I can think of plenty of "conservatives" that have loose morals. I can also think of plenty of "conservatives" that have strict morals. Likewise, I can think of liberals with a strict moral code, and liberals with a loose moral code. When I said GLOs tend to attract "conservatives", I was talking about people who vote for Republicans, moral code optional.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

There are areas of the midwest that is considered Conservative, but the residents are very poor and uneducated, just as other areas are wealthy and educated.

The way you worded this implies that the only areas that are (C)conservative in the Midwest are the poor/uneducated ones.

The Midwest is in many ways as conservative as the South, however the large urban areas like Chicago and St. Louis are much more liberal. Illinois is only a "blue state" because of Chicago, and Missouri can go back and forth depending on the issues. However, Central and Southern Illinois are not uneducated and poor. If anything the education is, on a whole, better than that of poor inner city schools.

Not to say that there aren't bad schools and uneducated people around here, but rural doesn't equal poor and uneducated, it just means you combine school districts and drive a bit further. Ohio hardly counts as the midwest in the first place, so don't speak like you know it if you're going to get it wrong.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Ohio hardly counts as the midwest in the first place

Cincinnati yes, Cleveland, not so much.

[Low C Sharp]

Think of every sorority stereotype. Rich, exclusive, obsessed with looks, only in college to find a husband, parties, objectifying ourselves, etc. We are part of "the establishment" to the general population. I think conservatives tend to be more attracted to (or at least more okay with) this image than liberals.

I think that's exactly right.
________
Buy vapor genie

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The way you worded this implies that the only areas that are (C)conservative in the Midwest are the poor/uneducated ones.

The Midwest is in many ways as conservative as the South, however the large urban areas like Chicago and St. Louis are much more liberal. Illinois is only a "blue state" because of Chicago, and Missouri can go back and forth depending on the issues. However, Central and Southern Illinois are not uneducated and poor. If anything the education is, on a whole, better than that of poor inner city schools.

Not to say that there aren't bad schools and uneducated people around here, but rural doesn't equal poor and uneducated, it just means you combine school districts and drive a bit further. Ohio hardly counts as the midwest in the first place, so don't speak like you know it if you're going to get it wrong.

Interesting, because after being born and raised in the Lou, I wouldn't call it midwest (we considered ourselves borderline south,) a large urban city, nor liberal (racism is and has always benn rampant.) It always seems to be two steps behing the rest of the country.

As for Southern Illinois, when I attended SIUC in the 60s-70s, Carbondale had some of the poorest areas I had ever seen--including all the homes in the "regular" neighborhoods still having out-houses. Having been there recently, the non-poor consists of the faculty and admin of SIUC, but the town itself is still behind the times. The same with Central IL, because of the U of I. In other words those areas only have a modicum of progressiveness because of the universities that exist there. The locals/natives are a totally different story.

Oh and folx I know in OH--mainly Cleveland do consider themselves to be midwest--as does Delta, which has them in our Midwest region. BTW, MO is not in our midwest region--IL yes, but not MO. The MS River is the divider.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Little32

I guess for me this about sums it up. I think most NPHC organizations, and I single them out because they are the ones that I am most familiar with, are quite progressive on social issues, while at the same time having members that socially conservative in their own lives (which I think is what the OP refers to--the body of members). It certainly isn't a black or white issue.

And again, based on the demographic studies of Delta, I do know that the vast majority of our members are liberal in their own lives. So I am beginning to wonder it you are equating conservatism to elitism or classism.

[Taualumna]

I wouldn't say that NPC/IFC GLO members are super-conservative. Many immigrant cultures are super-conservative, and the parents would freak out if they find out that their children (especially their daughters) went Greek. To these parents, school is meant for studying, not having fun. Also, the partying repuation that GLOs have (whether it be true or untrue at the campus the kids attend) may be against their values at home.

In any case, all NPC groups were founded at a time when women only made up a small percentage of college students, so just BY being college students, these girls' parents were no way extreme conservatives during their time.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

And again, based on the demographic studies of Delta, I do know that the vast majority of our members are liberal in their own lives. So I am beginning to wonder it you are equating conservatism to elitism or classism.

No, I think that we generally are saying the same thing. Of course, it goes back to your statement about the definitions of liberalism and conservatism (and, actually, I don't know if a straight juxtaposition of those two ideas is as useful as it could be) and I think that things have changed pretty significantly with regards to definitions of conservatism even within the last ten years.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

the demographics for my sorority dispute this. But then it is probably understandable since out first official act was to participate in the suffragette movement and march the streets of DC.

It was the Republican party who pushed the Suffragette agenda...Harding was a huge supporter of Sufferage!

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Most California greeks I know....like most California college students are woefully liberal. The greeks however seem to be more moderate Democrat than their non-greek liberal to commie student counterparts. So it's all relative but I think in general you're right.

Conservative people tend to be attracted to organizations which have limitations and conformity (the Military, GLOs, Country Clubs, etc), and no I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with that.

Also I think being in a GLO(especially as an exec) teaches you about human nature, why it's a bad idea to let random dudes into events, and how to run finances. I think all three things tend to make people a little less naive and trusting about the goodness of human nature....and thus more conservative.

I think Liberals tend to see human nature as generally good and after having a few computers, DVD players, and stereos stolen at parties and see sleazy stranger guys try to date rape girls at your house that whole fluffy world view begins to change....and you become more cautious.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

It was the Republican party who pushed the Suffragette agenda...Harding was a huge supporter of Sufferage!

oh noez! not Harding!!!

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

It was the Republican party who pushed the Suffragette agenda...Harding was a huge supporter of Sufferage!

You are aware that at one point in this country, the republicans and democrats were the polar opposites of what they are today.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Interesting, because after being born and raised in the Lou, I wouldn't call it midwest (we considered ourselves borderline south,) a large urban city, nor liberal (racism is and has always benn rampant.) It always seems to be two steps behing the rest of the country.

As for Southern Illinois, when I attended SIUC in the 60s-70s, Carbondale had some of the poorest areas I had ever seen--including all the homes in the "regular" neighborhoods still having out-houses. Having been there recently, the non-poor consists of the faculty and admin of SIUC, but the town itself is still behind the times. The same with Central IL, because of the U of I. In other words those areas only have a modicum of progressiveness because of the universities that exist there. The locals/natives are a totally different story.

Oh and folx I know in OH--mainly Cleveland do consider themselves to be midwest--as does Delta, which has them in our Midwest region. BTW, MO is not in our midwest region--IL yes, but not MO. The MS River is the divider.

Only went to school in STL but yeah, it is a weird mix of southern with Midwestern, however it votes blue which is apparently what we're talking about. Southern Illinois has some really poor areas, however Central IL is not at all the same. Champaign-Urbana is a college city, but the rest of Central IL are primarily industrial. I've never seen an outhouse in Decatur or Springfield and the small towns around there generally have good school districts even though they're not pulling in the same tax revenues as the cities.

Yes there's poverty everywhere, but being conservative in the Midwest doesn't mean you're poor or uneducated which seemed to be what the previous poster was saying. Most of Illinois is conservative and most of it is not poor nor poorly educated.

[LegallyBrunette]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

Most California greeks I know....like most California college students are woefully liberal. The greeks however seem to be more moderate Democrat than their non-greek liberal to commie student counterparts. So it's all relative but I think in general you're right.

Conservative people tend to be attracted to organizations which have limitations and conformity (the Military, GLOs, Country Clubs, etc), and no I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with that.

Also I think being in a GLO(especially as an exec) teaches you about human nature, why it's a bad idea to let random dudes into events, and how to run finances. I think all three things tend to make people a little less naive and trusting about the goodness of human nature....and thus more conservative.

I think Liberals tend to see human nature as generally good and after having a few computers, DVD players, and stereos stolen at parties and see sleazy stranger guys try to date rape girls at your house that whole fluffy world view begins to change....and you become more cautious.

Damn, I lost my whole first response to this. Anyway, I agree with the general proposition that conservative individuals may be initially more comfortable with the idea of an institution like Greek Life. However, I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that liberalism somehow equates to irresponsibility and naivete. If anything, in looking at the current administration's fiscal policy, the opposite seems to be true (ex: hemmoragic spending in the face of an enormous deficit). If somehow having a chapter composed of liberals meant huge RM issues and lack of financial stability because of their naivete and unwillingness to impose rules (which is what I took away from the above post), every chapter in every blue state (except for those chapters entirely composed of Republicans) would be in ruin. And, despite what rumblings I've heard from time to time on here about Greek life in the West and North, they are not.

Kyle, please correct me if I've misinterpreted you.