Quota Additions at Super Competitive Schools

[Drolefille]

^^ Even though we were "expected" to make quota, we were not "required" to keep the recommended amount exactly. But, if it's an issue of I/NHQ standards then they're the ones falling into the "BID EVERYONE" trap, not the chapters. That's a fault of the HQ, not the RFM.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

^^ Even though we were "expected" to make quota, we were not "required" to keep the recommended amount exactly. But, if it's an issue of I/NHQ standards then they're the ones falling into the "BID EVERYONE" trap, not the chapters. That's a fault of the HQ, not the RFM.

And top tier chapters at competitive schools also know that if they do happen to fall slightly short of quota because they're only inviting those they really want to Pref, there's a very good pool of PNMs who did not attend any Pref parties at all because they dropped somewhere in the process. You can have some snap bids issued to quality girls before the ink is dry on all the bid cards. One top chapter at my school has elevated this to an art form.

[GammaPhi88]

What I am hoping posters here mean by "less loved PNMs" are the ones that they liked enough to invite to pref (and, essentially, place on their bidlist), but are not necessarily the chapter wide "rush crushes", or women that have been talked up ad nauseam throughout recruitment. They think..."Okay, we got these girls and they seem pretty good, but we didn't get SUPER PNM PATTY who HAD to be higher on our bidlist...NOT FAIR!" Some PNMs are generally very visible to a chapter during recruitment, and when these PNMs do not choose the chapter on bid day, many chapters, especially the strong ones, may see women they may have liked but not LOVED, and determine the whole thing unfair and blame quota additions. Or they think that because those women are not there, they had to dip far lower onto the bid list, which may not be the case.

The funny thing to me, is that after a few years of recruitment, I've noticed that these members who were more under the radar during recruitment often become some of the best members. While I felt welcomed into my chapter, I don't think I was some sort of PNM superstar, and I know I surprised a bunch of older actives by being as active as I was in the Greek community. Often (but not always), SUPER PNM pledges and is either all about partying or generally not that involved.

[carnation]

Fabulous points, GammaPhi88!

[OleMissGlitter]

Originally Posted by GammaPhi88

What I am hoping posters here mean by "less loved PNMs" are the ones that they liked enough to invite to pref (and, essentially, place on their bidlist), but are not necessarily the chapter wide "rush crushes", or women that have been talked up ad nauseam throughout recruitment. They think..."Okay, we got these girls and they seem pretty good, but we didn't get SUPER PNM PATTY who HAD to be higher on our bidlist...NOT FAIR!" Some PNMs are generally very visible to a chapter during recruitment, and when these PNMs do not choose the chapter on bid day, many chapters, especially the strong ones, may see women they may have liked but not LOVED, and determine the whole thing unfair and blame quota additions. Or they think that because those women are not there, they had to dip far lower onto the bid list, which may not be the case.

The funny thing to me, is that after a few years of recruitment, I've noticed that these members who were more under the radar during recruitment often become some of the best members. While I felt welcomed into my chapter, I don't think I was some sort of PNM superstar, and I know I surprised a bunch of older actives by being as active as I was in the Greek community. Often (but not always), SUPER PNM pledges and is either all about partying or generally not that involved.

Fabulous points GammaPhi88. Totally agree about the "under the radar" PNMs....in my 8 years of advising I can honestly say they are some of the best NMs. I can think of a few "rush crushes/tip tops" who ended up being not-so-great!

I also think this is where Recs can be super important. Often PNMs who are "not on the radar" might have a glowing rec. I know sometimes these PNMs might not have any "internal cheerleaders" cheering them on within the chapter, but a glowing/fabulous rec can help to create some cheering!

ETA:

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

At our school there is no deviation. If Panhel tells you to invite back 250 you invite back 250 not one over and not one under. Prior to RFM there used to be a little play in the numbers, but not any more. They will not even take your list, in fact, the computer will not accept it if the correct amount of invites are not on it.

I was told as long as the chapter's NPC Delegate and Fraternity Sorority Adviser were informed the chapter was not sticking to the release figures they DO NOT have to follow those figures. Of course they are not guaranteed quota and it will probably mess up numbers for other chapters on campus. I know of a chapter on a campus who did release more than the release figure given to them and they didn’t make quota. I know the FSA pleaded with them but they refused saying those women they were releasing did not meet their minimum requirements. This campus uses a computer program (ICS) so I know they were able to do it. It might vary campus to campus.

So that brings me to this question (because I really don't have an answer)....Are we starting to see the "flaws" in RFM? Thoughts?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by OleMissGlitter

I know of a chapter on a campus who did release more than the release figure given to them and they didn’t make quota. I know the FSA pleaded with them but they refused saying those women they were releasing did not meet their minimum requirements. This campus uses a computer program (ICS) so I know they were able to do it. It might vary campus to campus.

So that brings me to this question (because I really don't have an answer)....Are we starting to see the "flaws" in RFM? Thoughts?

Was this past the point when women get released for grades? If not, I'm thinking maybe it would be a good idea for that Panhel's minimum grade requirement to be more in line with the chapter policies (i.e. don't let women with a 2.2 rush when the minimum for every chapter is a 3.0).

Obviously one of the flaws is going to be the intangibility of why people get cut. On one hand a chapter should never be forced to invite women who don't meet grade requirements, who have serious personal problems with members...on the other, you can say "they don't meet our requirements" and also assert that you don't have to tell why, because that's private MS information, whether that's the truth or not. I'm more inclined to say if a chapter wants to cut their pref party list down to one member over quota, even if it is for spectacularly lame reasons, that's their prerogative. They're the ones who have to hash it out with their alumnae or national poobahs or whoever...Panhel is blameless. I'd rather see a chapter cut too harshly instead of giving women false hope (whether they're doing it themselves or RFM is making them do it).

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by OleMissGlitter

So that brings me to this question (because I really don't have an answer)....Are we starting to see the "flaws" in RFM? Thoughts?

I'm late to this discussion but I am one who thinks we are definitely seeing some flaws in RFM. RFM has a lot of good points, and I think I understand the inception, and birth ot it. However, somewhere along the way, a monster was created - the monster of 'everyone gets a bid, QA's are plentiful, and pledge classes are now over 100 on many campuses.

The heavy cuts mandated for stronger chapters after round one make sense but (and woe to me for even suggesting this) I think another, equally heavy cut needs to happen just before pref.

And, on another note, my experience with QA's is that they are very, very often great, contributing members (just not superstar pnms but loved enough to get to pref). As an advisor, I often got quite a kick out of watching a QA from the previous year take a positive, leadership/active role in recruitment the next year. (keeping in mind that only I knew she was a QA,of course)

[carnation]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

And, on another note, my experience with QA's is that they are very, very often great, contributing members (just not superstar pnms but loved enough to get to pref). As an advisor, I often got quite a kick out of watching a QA from the previous year take a positive, leadership/active role in recruitment the next year. (keeping in mind that only I knew she was a QA,of course)

^^^ Like!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

I'm late to this discussion but I am one who thinks we are definitely seeing some flaws in RFM. RFM has a lot of good points, and I think I understand the inception, and birth ot it. However, somewhere along the way, a monster was created - the monster of 'everyone gets a bid, QA's are plentiful, and pledge classes are now over 100 on many campuses.

The heavy cuts mandated for stronger chapters after round one make sense but (and woe to me for even suggesting this) I think another, equally heavy cut needs to happen just before pref.

I think the pledge class issue will end up resolved if schools can add chapters as a result. I think that the RFM monster is exaggerated. Not every PNM gets a bid, it's still entirely possible to be cut from all chapters (even those told not to cut anyone). Ultimately I think this is all GOOD for Greek Life, as minimizing PNMs cut from recruitment by forcing them to seek other chapters will on the whole increase the number matched and the number who are positive about Greek Life moving forward

I know expansion isn't as easy as snapping your fingers but it seems that those many campuses probably need to begin the process unless they want chapters of 300+ to be the norm. And on many smaller campuses RFM is helping 5 chapters sustain a much smaller number of actives without the constant teetering collapse, colonization and rinse/repeat.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Not every PNM gets a bid, it's still entirely possible to be cut from all chapters (even those told not to cut anyone).

Unless the pnm is ridiculous (strange beyond words, horrible gpa etc.) it's rare for her to be cut by all chapters. Generally she eliminates the "must invite all back" chapters with her rankings in the first round or two where she still ends up with a full schedule. By the time those "stronger recruiting" chapters are doing the cuts that eliminate her, she doesn't have any of those other "weaker recruiting" chapters left so she's left completely without invites. This is how pnms end up "dropping through the cracks" as it seems to get called on gc.

[oliviaosentoski]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

I'm late to this discussion but I am one who thinks we are definitely seeing some flaws in RFM. RFM has a lot of good points, and I think I understand the inception, and birth ot it. However, somewhere along the way, a monster was created - the monster of 'everyone gets a bid, QA's are plentiful, and pledge classes are now over 100 on many campuses.

The heavy cuts mandated for stronger chapters after round one make sense but (and woe to me for even suggesting this) I think another, equally heavy cut needs to happen just before pref.

And, on another note, my experience with QA's is that they are very, very often great, contributing members (just not superstar pnms but loved enough to get to pref). As an advisor, I often got quite a kick out of watching a QA from the previous year take a positive, leadership/active role in recruitment the next year. (keeping in mind that only I knew she was a QA,of course)

I agree with heavier cuts needing to be made before prefs. By cutting more befor pref will have less disappointed pnms and chapters on there bid day.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by oliviaosentoski

I agree with heavier cuts needing to be made before prefs. By cutting more befor pref will have less disappointed pnms and chapters on there bid day.

Exactly, on my campus there were 4 chapters who notoriously invited 4-5 times the number of girls in relation to the number of bids they had available. At that time we could only attend two pref parties. One year it was really awful, my grand little was a Rho Chi (as they were called then) and several of the girls in her group attend preference at different combinations of these 4 chapters. None of them received a bid, she had to console over 10 women that night. After that year, the campus made a policy that chapters could not invite more than a certain percentage over their quota to preference. The following year was much better as far as the number of women who didn't match. Individual campus panhellenics need to watch the numbers and the trends to adjust accordingly each year.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by GammaPhi88

What I am hoping posters here mean by "less loved PNMs" are the ones that they liked enough to invite to pref (and, essentially, place on their bidlist), but are not necessarily the chapter wide "rush crushes", or women that have been talked up ad nauseam throughout recruitment. They think..."Okay, we got these girls and they seem pretty good, but we didn't get SUPER PNM PATTY who HAD to be higher on our bidlist...NOT FAIR!" Some PNMs are generally very visible to a chapter during recruitment, and when these PNMs do not choose the chapter on bid day, many chapters, especially the strong ones, may see women they may have liked but not LOVED, and determine the whole thing unfair and blame quota additions. Or they think that because those women are not there, they had to dip far lower onto the bid list, which may not be the case.

The funny thing to me, is that after a few years of recruitment, I've noticed that these members who were more under the radar during recruitment often become some of the best members. While I felt welcomed into my chapter, I don't think I was some sort of PNM superstar, and I know I surprised a bunch of older actives by being as active as I was in the Greek community. Often (but not always), SUPER PNM pledges and is either all about partying or generally not that involved.

True story.

We joke about Murphy's Laws of Recruitment.

One of them is that the ONE PNM that everyone is so OMGILOVEHEROMG!!!!!!11111 will most likely do one of the following things:

*Sit around and do nothing. Then drop out before initiation.
*End up causing some huge drama, then quitting.
*hang around til sophomore year, then drop out because "it's like, not fun anymore."

Don't flame me, I know there are exceptions. I just have yet to see Holy Grail PNM work out as well as chapters would like.

[OleMissGlitter]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

True story.

We joke about Murphy's Laws of Recruitment.

One of them is that the ONE PNM that everyone is so OMGILOVEHEROMG!!!!!!11111 will most likely do one of the following things:

*Sit around and do nothing. Then drop out before initiation.
*End up causing some huge drama, then quitting.
*hang around til sophomore year, then drop out because "it's like, not fun anymore."Don't flame me, I know there are exceptions. I just have yet to see Holy Grail PNM work out as well as chapters would like.

SO TRUE!!!! (Is it bad I have faces flashing through my head when I read this!!!)

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by OleMissGlitter

(Is it bad I have faces flashing through my head when I read this!!!)

No, because I do too. LOL.