Greek Discrimination.... - Page 3

skylark · #31 02-07-2008, 02:25 PM

^^ The hypocrisy is that perhaps someone who sells addictive substances isn't in the best position to be criticizing a group because of their association with substance abuse. Yeah, I do see the tobacco owner's point that it is underage drinking he didn't want to be associated with. Alcohol and tobacco are both legal substances once you reach a certain age, but honestly, I don't think its a very distinguishing fact for someone to rely on since tobacco companies have for years been associated with advertising aimed at underage users and it isn't as if the tobacco owner was being asked to sponsor a keggar or anything.

Splitting hairs based on whether substance abuse is by someone "of age" is only a distinction under the law (not morally or health-wise). I think that it is hypocritical for someone who profits off of others' substance abuse to altruistically criticize a group for its supposed association with underage substance abuse. It is like an alcoholic (of age, lets assume) criticizing a pot smoker because under the law one is legal and the other isn't. It certainly doesn't make the alcoholic a less toxic person or mean that the alcoholic is leading a healthier life.

SWTXBelle · #32 02-07-2008, 02:27 PM

It's not legal for minors. Just sayin'. (at the same time as Skylark!)

But if the shop owner doesn't want to associate his product with Greeks, that's his right, just as it is the right of the Greeks to chose not to frequent or recommend his shop.

Little32 · #33 02-07-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

To characterize an entire business as "selling cancer" and then ask them for money is IMO extremely hypocritical, not an ironic comment. "keep your money."

This was not the sequence of events, which is what MysticCat was pointing out.

33girl · #34 02-07-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little32

This was not the sequence of events, which is what MysticCat was pointing out.

So after someone turns you down for a request (even if they are a dick about it) it's OK for you to denigrate their entire business? That's like saying it's OK for the kid outside our building selling candy bars to call me a stupid bitch if I don't want to buy one.

skylark · #35 02-07-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

That's like saying it's OK for the kid outside our building selling candy bars to call me a stupid bitch if I don't want to buy one.

If you happen to be the proprietor of a McDonalds and tell the kid outside the building selling candy that the reason you don't want to buy their candy is because you don't like to support unbalanced nutrition... then yeah.

33girl · #36 02-07-2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylark

If you happen to be the proprietor of a McDonalds and tell the kid outside the building selling candy that the reason you don't want to buy their candy is because you don't like to support unbalanced nutrition... then yeah.

I am referring to an office building, not a McDonald's.

DSTCHAOS · #37 02-07-2008, 03:42 PM

I'm confusededededed now. Maybe I'm just hungry.

skylark · #38 02-07-2008, 03:45 PM

^^ 33girl

Oh I'm so sorry, I thought you were drawing an analogy to the situation of a kid selling candy outside your place of business ... which I thought was a poor analogy and therefore added the necessary facts to make it a correct demonstration of the tobacco store/fraternity issue. I guess maybe not everyone caught that.

MysticCat · #39 02-07-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

I am referring to an office building, not a McDonald's.

Which is one reason why you're mixing apples and oranges and why your analogy doesn't fit.

Go back and read the original post and note the sequence of events:

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobis

I was going around to local businesses in our town to get donations for our annual philanthropy event and I went into a local cigar shop who someone suggested helps with charity and I walk into the store dressed professionally with a sweater, collared shirt, clean cut, kakis etc. (somthing I might wear to an interview) and i introduce myself and say i'm with Alpha Tau Omega his first words were, "i'm sorry?" so i repeat myself and he says, "no i'm sorry to hear you're in a fraternity." i didn't end up recieving a donation from this owner because he said he didn't want his business associated with under-age drinking...YOU SELL CANCER!!! I'M HELPING HOMELESS PEOPLE!!! I was pretty pissed at that so I thanked him for his time and politely said, "Don't believe all the things you hear about fraternities some of us try and make a positive impact on the community."

From his description, OP was at all times polite. Even when he was pissed, he was polite and managed a smile and a respectful response. He didn't, so far as I can tell, actually say "You sell cancer" to the proprietor -- he said that to us as indicative of his state of mind, his frustration and his perception of hypocracy. As to why he might have perceived it as hypocracy, what Skylark said.

I certainly agree with what DSTCHAOS said (how could I not

) about not wanting the money of businesses that are inhumane, unethical, etc. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

DSTCHAOS · #40 02-07-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Which is one reason why you're mixing apples and oranges and why your analogy doesn't fit.

Go back and read the original post and note the sequence of events:

From his description, OP was at all times polite. Even when he was pissed, he was polite and managed a smile and a respectful response. He didn't, so far as I can tell, actually say "You sell cancer" to the proprietor -- he said that to us as indicative of his state of mind, his frustration and his perception of hypocracy. As to why he might have perceived it as hypocracy, what Skylark said.

I certainly agree with what DSTCHAOS said (how could I not

) about not wanting the money of businesses that are inhumane, unethical, etc. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Have you sold your soul, too?

This is where the issue of ethics is subjective. My undergrad and alumnae chapters did not, and probably will not, have alcohol or tobacco sponsors because of the conflict of interest, even if the event is filled with people of legal drinking and tobacco purchasing ages. Our events were/are mostly (legal and illegal) substance-free and the party fundraisers that were held at "clubs" did not need sponsors and were also not associated with the name of the sorority. Not everyone is a fan of seeing tobacco or alcohol sponsors listed beside sorority or fraternity's names because there is a stigma with such associations for many people. I don't know if organizations have national rules regarding this.

33girl · #41 02-07-2008, 04:00 PM

Just to make it clear, I'm not defending the store owner's actions or attitudes. But scoobis is being the equivalent of people who go through rush, don't get a bid, and then say "all the Greeks at my school are stuck up jerks/alcoholics/etc. and I am above them."

Apparently my definition of hypocrisy is different than most people's, so we might as well agree to disagree on this one.

scoobis · #42 02-07-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

You are really missing the point.

If you (either you personally or you as a group) find someone's business distasteful, you don't ask them to donate money. I hate Walmart, I don't care how much they've given in the past, I won't go in that store and ask them for money.

As you obviously find this man's business something repugnant, you shouldn't have gone in there to ask for money. Let another brother do it. If you as a group are against tobacco use, it's really hypocritical to ask a tobacco seller to help you in any way.

I'm sorry i did miss the point. Personally I don't find the man's business repugnant. I love cigars, he saw me put out a cigarette before i entered the store. I told him i did enjoy his business too i remember saying, "From one smoker to another..blah blah" but i was half kidding about it. I just found it funny that someone that sells deadly things like cigars and cigarettes, (and i do love both) was worried about a bad image because of a charity.

fantASTic · #43 02-07-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

Just to make it clear, I'm not defending the store owner's actions or attitudes. But scoobis is being the equivalent of people who go through rush, don't get a bid, and then say "all the Greeks at my school are stuck up jerks/alcoholics/etc. and I am above them."

Apparently my definition of hypocrisy is different than most people's, so we might as well agree to disagree on this one.

Um, no. Scoobis is being the equivalent of someone going through rush and getting cut because of having brown hair, when the entire chapter has brown hair.

You are completely missing what is going on.

scoobis · #44 02-08-2008, 03:09 AM

wow...i did not see this turning into a defense/attack on my integrity...(thanks for defending me though) but i just wanted to point out that it sucks being judged for the letters on my chest. Simple enough...i gave that man every reason to think i was a well-mannered young man and he was rude and a bit ignorant. It sucks, i'm not getting a $100 check from him...but the nice older women at the gift hop next door did write me one and say that it was a noble cause.

I just thought the situation sucked....enough said. I'm sure everyone here has been judged because of their affiliation...i'm sorry i opened this can of worms with san Francisco and brown haired kids and MacDonald’s...

#45 02-08-2008, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobis

wow...i did not see this turning into a defense/attack on my integrity...(thanks for defending me though) but i just wanted to point out that it sucks being judged for the letters on my chest. Simple enough...i gave that man every reason to think i was a well-mannered young man and he was rude and a bit ignorant. It sucks, i'm not getting a $100 check from him...but the nice older women at the gift hop next door did write me one and say that it was a noble cause.

I just thought the situation sucked....enough said. I'm sure everyone here has been judged because of their affiliation...i'm sorry i opened this can of worms with san Francisco and brown haired kids and MacDonald’s...

Threads on GreekChat tend to get that way.

Yes, it does suck to be discriminated for your letters. But it's easier to just suck it up and move on because you won't be able to please everyone. If we waste all our time trying to convince those people that we're well-mannered not at all like those Greek stereotypes, we might overlook those nice old ladies at the gift shop next door who'll actually want to support us.