Are we open to women with children?

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Yes, generally speaking.

That doesn't mean that every woman with a child is suitable for membership or will become a member, based on official criteria and other criteria.

I would agree. I don't think she should be automatically excluded just because she has kids but she does have to understand the commitment and expectations.

And since I didn't get to comment in the other (now closed) thread, bringing kids to a chapter meeting is completely inappropriate unless there was some unforeseen emergency for the pure fact that they aren't members.

[AU_ZTA86]

Canned answer but it depends on the chapter/campus. I think it would be more accepted at in a comuter environment as opposed to a more 'traditional' residential university. And, like it or not, I think it is different for sororities than fraternities.

[UWO_2007]

we have about 36 in my chapter, and only 8 I think can live in the house.. now I am at a small campus, not cut throat like the south... I did my research to see where I thought I'd fit the best... and it worked out in my favor. I'm a 29 year old single mom, going to school full time, working full time, and involved. I'm just one of those people that function better busy... lol....

[KSUViolet06]

I wish I could find it, but about 2 years ago, The Triangle did an article about this subject. One of the main points was that the population of US colleges and univiersities is changing Schools are seeing more of the non-traditional students who may be a little older, have taken time off after HS, or even be married or have kids.

I don't think the point of the article was to tell us to bid EVERY 30 year old that walks through our door, but to jhelp collegians recognize that those women can be valuable members of the sorority just as much as any 18 year old traditional student can.

I think it does really depend on the campus climate. We've never had a woman with a kid come through recruitment, so there's no precedent for it. We have, however had married/engaged women come through (granted they were still traditonal student aged) and get bids.

As far as a woman with kids goes, I think my school is non-traditional, but not quite THAT non traditional. I think chapters would be hesitant to bid her because you don't know how capable she is of handling a sorority and a child. I think AlphaFrog summed up my personal opinion perfectly:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Coming from a smaller, uncompetitive campus, I wouldn't have had a problem with bidding a woman with a child, but I also wouldn't have had a problem with terminating her membership should it become a conflict.

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Let me try to take this topic in a more positive direction.

Are we sorority women really open to the idea that older students, some who may be parents, can be members and have a positive collegiate membership experience? I'm not too sure about that, except on non-traditional campuses. I don't think we're totally there yet.

My dad was in a fraternity at USC late 1950s and had many brothers who were Korean war vets who were married with children. My husband also had Fraternity brothers in mid80s who were vets and some that were just much older students. It didn't seem to be a big issue at all. But I couldn't picture a woman of any age married or with kids in a sorority during my collegiate years. is it really any different today?

any thoughts??? (please no veering off on parenting issues.)

They need to be able to make the same time commitments that are required of collegiate women who dont have kids. They need to be able to pay their dues, as is expected of other collegiate women. They need to be able to make it to philanthropy events, and sisterhood events, etc etc. If they cant put in at least what is required, and not force the other women to bend over backwards to accomodate their children, then no. As a collegiate woman, it was not my job to accomodate some other person's kids and their schedule.

[Green+White]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

They need to be able to make the same time commitments that are required of collegiate women who dont have kids. They need to be able to pay their dues, as is expected of other collegiate women. They need to be able to make it to philanthropy events, and sisterhood events, etc etc. If they cant put in at least what is required, and not force the other women to bend over backwards to accomodate their children, then no. As a collegiate woman, it was not my job to accomodate some other person's kids and their schedule.

Did the OP ask if you wanted to babysit/accomodate people's kids? I think not. She asked if we were open to women with children.

DROP IT

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by Green+White

Did the OP ask if you wanted to babysit/accomodate people's kids? I think not. She asked if we were open to women with children.

DROP IT

Hah. Wow.

I answered the question, dear. Defensive much, are we?

They need to be able to make the same time commitments that are required of collegiate women who dont have kids. They need to be able to pay their dues, as is expected of other collegiate women. They need to be able to make it to philanthropy events, and sisterhood events, etc etc. If they cant put in at least what is required, and not force the other women to bend over backwards to accomodate their children, then no. As a collegiate woman, it was not my job to accomodate some other person's kids and their schedule.

I think we'd all be a little more open to women with children - as long as they were held to the same standards as the rest of us. Unfortunately, as you've proved, many times, they think they should be exception to the rules. Women like UWO, though, are a great example of women who know what's appropriate and what's not when it comes to their kids and greek life.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Green+White

Did the OP ask if you wanted to babysit/accomodate people's kids? I think not. She asked if we were open to women with children.

Part of being open is discussing whether or not having kids at chapter events (in general) is appropriate. No one here is getting on your case, we are simply discussing issues. All opinions witheld, you posted something here that was intersting to us and sparked alot of good discussion.

As far as my personal opinion, I would be open to having a woman with a kid in my collegiate chapter, as long as she understood that she was going to be held to the same particpation and attendance standards that all my other sisters are. This would mean making adequate arrangements for the children so that she can attend or sending in an excuse. As far as kids attending events, I'd be okay with it if it were something fun like the Homecoming Cookout where there'd be alumnae and other kids, but not chapter

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by Green+White

Did the OP ask if you wanted to babysit/accomodate people's kids? I think not. She asked if we were open to women with children.

DROP IT

It obviously depends on the chapter and the campus culture. Not only did one of our chapters have a member who has a daughter, that girl was also president of her chapter. Obviously, if you have a strong enough support system and good time management skills, it can be done. With that said, I have to be honest and say that if the decision were up to me, I don't think that I would vote to give a bid to a girl who was pregnant or had children.

[sarasmile]

I will preface my comments by saying that I am a mom myself. (Though I didn't get married and have children until several years after my undergraduate experience was over.)

I will also note for the record here that I have not yet read the original thread that apparently inspired this one, so my comments are entirely my own opinion in general...not referenced to any other situation which may have blown up on there recently.

I don't think that being a parent is something that would work on the vast majority of traditional campuses. The sorority experience at a traditional campus is demanding and in my experience (at my own campus)/observation (at campuses I work with now)...being a parent would conflict with those obligations.

Could it work at a non-traditional campus? Sure. But there is a fine line to walk. I absolutely agree that there are events that are just not appropriate to bring children to (chapter meetings, ritual events, etc) and if a member couldn't comply with that, then perhaps undergraduate sorority membership simply isn't for her.

Its different as an alumnae member, because a large number of us do have children and events are planned taking family/career obligations into consideration. The average undergraduate chapter plans their events around the schedules of the typical undergraduate student, as well they should.

Bottom line is that it has to be a case-by-case decision taking into consideration the campus involved and also the potential member involved. But if you ask me honestly would I have been open to accepting a woman with children for membership into my particular chapter while I was an undergraduate member? My honest answer would have been...no. It just wouldn't have flown on my campus. (And if the chapters I advise now came to me and asked me my opinion, I'd probably discourage it...but again, I mostly advise at traditional campuses.)

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by sarasmile

I will preface my comments by saying that I am a mom myself. (Though I didn't get married and have children until several years after my undergraduate experience was over.)

I will also note for the record here that I have not yet read the original thread that apparently inspired this one, so my comments are entirely my own opinion in general...not referenced to any other situation which may have blown up on there recently.

I don't think that being a parent is something that would work on the vast majority of traditional campuses. The sorority experience at a traditional campus is demanding and in my experience (at my own campus)/observation (at campuses I work with now)...being a parent would conflict with those obligations.

Could it work at a non-traditional campus? Sure. But there is a fine line to walk. I absolutely agree that there are events that are just not appropriate to bring children to (chapter meetings, ritual events, etc) and if a member couldn't comply with that, then perhaps undergraduate sorority membership simply isn't for her.

Its different as an alumnae member, because a large number of us do have children and events are planned taking family/career obligations into consideration. The average undergraduate chapter plans their events around the schedules of the typical undergraduate student, as well they should.

Bottom line is that it has to be a case-by-case decision taking into consideration the campus involved and also the potential member involved. But if you ask me honestly would I have been open to accepting a woman with children for membership into my particular chapter while I was an undergraduate member? My honest answer would have been...no. It just wouldn't have flown on my campus. (And if the chapters I advise now came to me and asked me my opinion, I'd probably discourage it...but again, I mostly advise at traditional campuses.)

I think that is a really honest and realistic answer. Unless a PNM can make it clear that all of her ducks are in a row, so to speak, why should a chapter trust that she would be able to juggle the myriad responsibilites involved in going to school, working, raising children, paying dues and being an active sister in a collegiate chapter? In most chapters, they can't take the risk on just anyone. If they make a mistake and the girl drops or is completely inactive, they're one member down, when for many chapters, every member counts.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Let me try to take this topic in a more positive direction.

Are we sorority women really open to the idea that older students, some who may be parents, can be members and have a positive collegiate membership experience? I'm not too sure about that, except on non-traditional campuses. I don't think we're totally there yet.

My dad was in a fraternity at USC late 1950s and had many brothers who were Korean war vets who were married with children. My husband also had Fraternity brothers in mid 80s who were vets and some that were just much older students. It didn't seem to be a big issue at all. But I couldn't picture a woman of any age married or with kids in a sorority during my collegiate years. is it really any different today?

any thoughts??? (please no veering off on parenting issues.)

*Generally speaking*, is it because men are more likely to leave their "personal life" (non fraternity related life) at the door when it comes to fraternity activities and/or business?

As such, I wonder how often the men brought their children to fraternity events? Especially those that were not "open" or appropriate for non members.

[SydneyK]

I can definitely see the benefit of having someone in your chapter who is a mom, but there are also some definite drawbacks.

When I was a collegiate, we bid on a woman who was a mom. She really fit in well with the women in the chapter and it was very obvious to us that she had incredible leadership potential. We were disappointed when, during her second year as an active, her regular babysitter moved. Unfortunately, this woman saw our chapter as the babysitting pool, and she didn't hesitate to ask us to watch her kids. It was ok at first, but it got real old, real fast. She eventually stiffed a few of us who babysat, and because of that, we ended up never agreeing to watch her kids again. She felt abandoned and angry; we felt taken advantage of and angry. It caused our chapter way more grief than any chapter should have to deal with. And quite frankly, we were relieved when she left (I don't know the specifics - don't know if she graduated, went alum, terminated, etc...).

Now, I know that not all moms would act this way. But we never thought she would - she seemed like the perfect sister. And, in fact, she was for a couple years. But the fact remained that she treated her sorority as a babysitting service, and that's not the purpose of sisterhood.

TSteven brings up a great question - is the difference due to the fact that men are more susceptible to checking their personal lives at the fraternity house door? I've said before, Mommy Brain is hard to shut off. For some reason (and I'm not dissing dads - I'm quite jealous, actually), men seem to have an easier time shutting off Daddy Brain (or, at least, appearing to).

[barnard1897]

In my NM class there was a woman who depledged, and we found out later she had gotten pregnant by her boyfriend. She finished college, but I think she felt like pledging was not her priority anymore with all that was going on in her personal life, as well as a change in financial situation. I always felt badly she left because I think the chapter would have been very supportive.

[nittanyalum]

To throw a small wrench into the conversation, what about chapters that have housing requirements? A thrust of the conversation so far seems to be that most would have no problem with a member with a child/children as long as they're held to the same requirements as other sisters. So what about chapters with houses that need to fill them and have only very specific exceptions to living in in their bylaws? (and have suspended members for not fulfilling their housing obligation) Would the sister with a child get an exception while the sister with a fiance or other "good reason" (per her view of her life) would not?