When Dumb Tshirt Slogans Go Wrong

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

What I was referring to in the "not understanding" is why he has the idea that most whites in America see Obama and think "slave". The guy's Israeli. I don't think he understands the American mindset, as diverse as it may be.

He was quoted as saying that though.

[Leslie Anne]

Okay, wait. I'll clarify.

The designer was quoted as saying that he believes that most Americans look at Obama and think "slave".

I disagree that most Americans think "slave" when looking at Obama. This isn't because I don't think there are racist people in America. (That would be off-the-charts naive.) It's because none of us were alive when slavery in this country existed. Thus, even though we know it existed, it isn't part of our personal frame of reference.

I just don't think that even your average racist in this country thinks "slave" when they look at African Americans. I believe they think other things.

The designer's being Israeli isn't the point here. It's the fact that he is not an American. I don't think he understands what we think.

ETA: I'm NOT excusing his stupid beliefs because he's a foreigner. I'm just saying he doesn't understand Americans. Beyond that, I think he's a turd.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Okay, wait. I'll clarify.

The designer was quoted as saying that he believes that most Americans look at Obama and think "slave".

I disagree that most Americans think "slave" when looking at Obama. This isn't because I don't think there are racist people in America. (That would be off-the-charts naive.) It's because none of us were alive when slavery in this country existed. Thus, even though we know it existed, it isn't part of our personal frame of reference.

I just don't think that even your average racist in this country thinks "slave" when they look at African Americans. I believe they think other things.

The designer's being Israeli isn't the point here. It's the fact that he is not an American. I don't think he understands what we think.

I disagree.

[DSTCHAOS]

I apologize for giving this tshirt "designer" free advertising.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I apologize for giving this tshirt "designer" free advertising.

Surely GCers are too smart to spend $69 for ANY t-shirt. (Not to mention an inflammatory one)

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Surely GCers are too smart to spend $69 for ANY t-shirt. (Not to mention an inflammatory one)

I wouldn't know what GCers and lurkers would and wouldn't do.

But I was moreso talking about "any publicity is good publicity." The designer knows his shirts are controversial and the effect he's looking for is to get people to TALK and REACT.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

The designer was quoted as saying that he believes that most Americans look at Obama and think "slave".

IIRC, he specified "WASPs" who, technically are the physical majority, but probably not the majority with respect to what you're saying.

ETA: Actually, when I think about it, it's probably not the Ps that are in the majority, but the RCs.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I disagree.

Could you explain why? I'm not trying to be controversial nor patronizing. I'd just really like to know what your take on this is.


preciousjeni, I think we're actually all opposed to this guy and his t-shirts but somehow we're getting our wires crosses in the discussion. I'm probably not getting my point across effectively...as usual.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The designer knows his shirts are controversial and the effect he's looking for is to get people to TALK and REACT.

I think you might be giving him more credit than he deserves. I think he's just a guy filled with hatred trying to make a buck.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I think you might be giving him more credit than he deserves. I think he's just a guy filled with hatred trying to make a buck.

ok..let's start with this...

I think he's just a guy filled with hatred trying to make a buck = I think he's just a guy trying to make a buck.

Refer back to what I said about the man in Ga with the Curious George Obama shirts....

Just another person wanting five seconds of attention whoredom...tis all.



The 'slave' mentality would take waaaaaay too long to explain but suffice to say, you still have enough people that still look at minorities as 2nd class citizen...again...think that some of this plays right into the whole New Yorker article that we discussed elsewhere.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

ok..let's start with this...

I think he's just a guy filled with hatred trying to make a buck = I think he's just a guy trying to make a buck.

Refer back to what I said about the man in Ga with the Curious George Obama shirts....

Just another person wanting five seconds of attention whoredom...tis all.

I agree. But I think you're disagreeing with me while I'm agreeing with you. Now I'm confused.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

The 'slave' mentality would take waaaaaay too long to explain but suffice to say, you still have enough people that still look at minorities as 2nd class citizen...again...think that some of this plays right into the whole New Yorker article that we discussed elsewhere.

Absolutely. I realize that many people think of minorities as 2nd class citizens. But, I still don't think the actual word "Slave" comes to mind. That was my main point.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

But, I still don't think the actual word "Slave" comes to mind. That was my main point.

The term is certainly an exaggeration, but it's not entirely inaccurate in a broader sense. People are still enslaved in the United States, but more indirectly and covertly than before.

I'd also be hesitant to say that whites don't tie blacks to slavery today, even if it subconscious. They may view the continued effects of slavery differently, but I'd venture to say that the thought is in there somewhere. Slavery is so humiliating to some whites that they don't want to talk about it and they shy away from discussions of race.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I wouldn't know what GCers and lurkers would and wouldn't do.

But I was moreso talking about "any publicity is good publicity." The designer knows his shirts are controversial and the effect he's looking for is to get people to TALK and REACT.

Note "" in my previous response. And "surely".

My name's not Shirley. Tee hee.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

The term is certainly an exaggeration, but it's not entirely inaccurate in a broader sense. People are still enslaved in the United States, but more indirectly and covertly than before.

I'd also be hesitant to say that whites don't tie blacks to slavery today, even if it subconscious. They may view the continued effects of slavery differently, but I'd venture to say that the thought is in there somewhere. Slavery is so humiliating to some whites that they don't want to talk about it and they shy away from discussions of race.

very on point and that is why right now, I am not ready to get on that line of debate....

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

very on point and that is why right now, I am not ready to get on that line of debate....

Okay. Fair enough. I can understand not wanting to get into that debate right now.

I'd just like to clarify that I wasn't disregarding the fact that the effects of slavery still exist and that minorities continue to be treated like second class citizens. The broader sense of the word "slave" is certainly still valid.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Slavery is so humiliating to some whites that they don't want to talk about it and they shy away from discussions of race.

Exactly! That's why I do not believe that the word "slave" easily comes to mind. I'm not talking about obvious racists like the Klan here. I'm talking about the far more insidious racism that pervaids our society. It's a part of average, everyday people who wouldn't necessarily believe that they are racist at all. But they harbor negative beliefs and act on them regardless. They don't want to hire minorities. They don't want to rent to minorities.

Yet, this type of person is very likely to be humiliated by the slavery of our past. That's exactly why I don't believe that the word "slave" comes to mind for them. Why would someone who doesn't believe they're part of the problem want to remind themselves of our shameful past? They don't. And, unfortunately, I think this includes a great majority of white Americans today.